“Every manufacturer, including Intel, claims that it’s still looking out for the small but elite group of power users. To say otherwise is blasphemous,” Chris Angelini reports for Tom’s Hardware. “But my early look at the enthusiast-oriented Ivy Bridge-E configuration (Intel Core i7-4960X) turned up a distinct lack of progress in this upcoming generation.”
“In the company’s defense, it’s simultaneously fighting higher-stakes battles on other fronts that require financial resources and engineering talent, which have to come from somewhere,” Angelini reports. “That’s not to explain away two successive desktop launches that left enthusiasts feeling a little underwhelmed, or to recommend that you buy a new system when your coming-up-on-three-year-old Sandy Bridge-based box is still plenty fast. Ivy Bridge and Haswell were both decidedly mobile-focused. So, in light of IDC’s forecast that that tablet shipments will outpace desktops and laptops combined by 2015, it’s really no wonder that Intel’s emphasis is on low power and new form factors.”
Angelini reports, “Rather than turning its next Mac Pro into a big dual-socket affair, Apple is capitalizing on the fact that Ivy Bridge-EP will ship in 12-core configurations, and it’s consolidating the platform into a 9.9-inch-tall cylinder with up to one Xeon E5-2697 V2 CPU. Regardless of whether you love or hate the “wastebasket” design, the system’s specs are very impressive for the volume of space it occupies… Apple is going to have them in its next-gen Mac Pro workstations, and it’ll be interesting to see how much a 12-core Xeon E5 adds to the small cylinder’s price tag. Given a number of motherboard vendors that added Xeon E5 support to their X79 platforms, you should be able to build your own 12-core workstation running Windows. But if you thought that $1000 for an Extreme Edition CPU was nuts, just wait till you hear what a Xeon E5-2697 V2 will run you.”
Tons more info and benchmarks the full article here.
[Thanks to MacDailyNews Reader “Wes Bascas” for the heads up.]
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How much will Apple’s new Mac Pro cost? – June 27, 2013
The Mac Pro expansion dilemma – June 19, 2013
What professional Mac users think of Apple’s new Mac Pro – June 18, 2013
Apple’s new Mac Pro: Does internal expandability really matter? – June 17, 2013
Developer secretly tested new Mac Pro – sight unseen – for weeks inside Apple’s top-secret lab – June 14, 2013
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Fire Tim Cook.
Sadly, I can no longer tell if these comments are serious or not
They are tired of “being patient”. Steve Jobs would be pissed if it wasn’t shipping the day we saw it or if orders could not be placed with shipments only a few days later.
This was revealed so that the Apple team could say, “Can’t innovate my ass” at the last developers conference. New stile. Too bad!
Just can’t make anyone happy……people complain because Apple is too secretive and don’t announce anything ahead of time to make plans for and when they do that isn’t good enough. They want it the day it was announced. Under Jobs Apple did the same thing at times, introduce and ship it later that month or so. They are pushing it now going on months, but still people wanted a heads up. Can’t please everyone!
I’m pleased. That sneak peek was dandy, beyond what I’d hoped for, and gave form to Tim Cook’s earlier mention, justifying my faith which had begun to tatter. The emotional charge from sweet anticipation is as powerful as that of fulfillment, as we learned as children round the Christmas tree.
Steve Jobs would have killed it because the profits from this Mac Pro will be but a BLIP compared to all the moneymakers they sell.
Please use this “logic” to explain the existence of the Mac mini, or for that matter the current Mac Pro.
I am constantly appalled by the lack of historical perspective that exists in America. Morons without memories (some of them in this thread) claim that Jobs always delivered immediately, but that is hogwash. The original AppleTV was shown on-stage by Jobs six months before it was available for sale. Six months (or more) lapsed between the introduction of the first white iPhone and its availability for purchase. And every OS rev – arguably Apple’s most important products – is shown six months or more before its first sale date. But the morons-without-memories remember none of this and sprew the same innane crap we hear from the idiot Wall Street analysts.
RALPH – Nice thank you – right on!!!
I attended quite a few of Steve’s keynotes and I can back this up. Quite often Steve would announce a new product and then say that it was shipping up to several months later. The issue, as I understand it, was that MacWorld happened in January and that didn’t always coincide with when the product would be ready. Apple no longer attends MacWorld and doesn’t present keynotes there. Now the announcement is held off till the product is ready so, of course, they always say “shipping today”.
Except for the rare exception such as the Mac Pro preview at WWDC, which can only be viewed as a strategic feint in the direction of the shrillmeisters whose tiresome hogging of the newsfeeds was getting everyone’s goat.
Jobs might also just have said “F- it” to the whole pro market just because.
Steve Jobs was tempted to do just that from time to time, but cooler heads prevailed in critical situations; rather I should say Steve had a talent for listening that was able to stand up to any of his many passions, and had the will to change his mind accordingly. He never threw away anything “just because” because his clarity of purpose would not permit it. He was a thinker fueled by his passions, not ruled by them.
Are you joking? Who would you put in there, Carl Icahn? Let’s wait a few months and see how things play out. How about until spring? That should be enough time for the known commodities and the mysterious product behind door number two to be introduced. Then we can judge. And yes, I’m still waiting for my larger iPhone. And so are millions of others. Hopefully it will come along by spring or at the very latest summer of 2014.
How long does it take to deliver a larger iPhone when you’ve been making smaller iPhones for years?
Why should we wait months for a product that should have been out last year?
Has everybody at Apple cashed in their stock options and been vacationing for a year? Exactly, what have they been doing? if you look at new products shipped, it appears that they have been doing nothing.
the joker – I know this guy – he’s a lame little boy with the use of his moms PC… missing an eye and somewhat slow… we need to just feel a bit sorry for him…
Guess what pimp, you dont know me.
Why? Because you said so?
Shoot you.
Form over function. Too quirky, too limited and too restricted for widespread mainstream use. Maybe a couple of people in Pixar will use it but other than that, nah, can’t see it selling more than 10 units a quarter.
I’ll give you 1000-1 odds on that bet.
Yes and No……I still prefer the old tower design and was hoping for a unit to have 8 drives and ability to rackmount and have a clean look with internal expansion.
This design is more expandable, but it will create a mess on your desk because everything is external! Instead of 4 internal drives you never see, now you will have them stacked on your desk!
I don’t like it! Great specs, but I’m not sold!
Only someone completely lacking in imagination would have a bunch of external drives stacked on top of a desk, when the smart ones set up their work space to be as uncluttered as possible, hiding such things away in a large drawer or cupboard.
Ever heard of NAS drives?
How come I can think of alternatives to having a bunch of boxes that don’t need to be touched from one day to the next, stacked up on a desk, and you can’t?
Networked NAS drives don’t support the speeds that a Mac Pro user will be looking for. Thunderbolt NAS drives have to be connected with a cable no longer than 3 meters.
Translation: you’re going to have a bunch of drives stacked up on your desk.
Your “alternative” fails.
If there’s room for a Mac Pro tower, there’s room for new Mac Pro and a Pegasus or LaCie TB RAID. Besides, who on earth puts a Mac Pro tower ON his desk? Most folks put them UNDER the desk. I put my multiple RAIDs on a small shelf right NEXT TO my desk and connect them to my Mac with a 2m TB cable.
Uuuuh… George I am afraid you don’t have a clue about “pro” users.
While I can only speak for the Feature Film, Engineering, CAD, & Visualization fields (because I am familiar with them) almost all professionals use SAN/NAS systems. (and there are copious SAN-thunderbolt connectivity options (even to fiber/SAN)
It is the prosumers who generally put multiple drives inside a workstation. Even in the case where Pro’s may have or want local storage, most prefer (external) hardware RAID’s over software RAIDS (faster and more reliable, scalable and serviceable))
“Using” NAS systems is one thing; using them as primary drives with your 12-core workstation is another. The performance is simply not there. Let me know when you become a true “pro” user.
George, you are apparently totally clueless about the internal drive spec of the new mac pro. It primary drive is next generation “direct to buss” flash storage making it several times faster than conventional (SATA) flash drives and an order of magnitude faster than spinning drives.
George do you know what a SAN (storage area network) is?
As I look at your reply it seems like you don’t.
Are you really a 14 year old gamer/ youtube “video producer /celebrity” wannabe who has gotten into a discussion waaaaay over his head. That’s what it seems like at this point
I’m not sure you realize how small this machine is… Adding a small raid box or several stackable drives can be very neat and clean indeed… I actually purchased custom made cables for one of my setups, shorties that ran only the length I needed, it helped a lot!
Exactly. I wish that MDN would stop running that giant pic of the new Mac Pro. Misleading. Big, black, monolithic, imposing, overwhelming the page it sits on, an optical illusion belying its trim dimensions and disguising its affordances. BTW, I agree that for a fixed setup custom cables are the only way to fly
Well, I am surprised. Everyone stopped talking about the up coming release of this Mac Pro. I assumed it would be shipping for a week before the talking heads realized it existed at all.
Anyone really know the price yet? I still believe that this is going to be the high end home hub. It can stream up to 3 streams of the new 4K HDMI media format to the new Sony 4K HDTV sets. I think it would look good in my living room and should be very quiet.
Do you honestly think that they will be selling this in any way, shape or form less than what they currently charge for the existing model? I’d make an educated guess and say that it will start at $2,500 for the base model, maybe even $3,000. You better make sure that whichever place you put the Mac Pro is well ventilated because unlike the existing model, I see heat buildup as a potential problem.
My Mac mini under my HDTV set runs cool and this has a better heat transfer design in it. Those Sony 4K HDTV sets cost a lot more than the $3,000 price you guessed at and what other source will feed the new 4K HDTV streams for less for those TV sets. 4K HDTV doesn’t fit on a Blue-ray. My Mac mini can’t feed it. If you are buying those new 4K HDTV sets, what is your plan?
Your Mac mini runs cool probably because you’re not putting much load on it. Try encoding a couple of HD videos on the mini and you’ll hear the sound of an aircraft taking off. These are server grade Xeon processors, not desktop/laptop Pentium grade processors. They run at higher load tolerances, require much more power and require much more cooling than ordinary Pentiums.
I don’t have any plans on buying 4K TV. Current generation LCD and plasma TVs are plenty good at 1080p non-interlaced. They provide excellent picture rendition if you avoid buying crap from Samsung, LG and Philips and stick to the Japanese brands, e.g. Panasonic, Sony, Toshiba.
4k does maybe make sense for really large sets >60″
As for brands, Samsung has better panels than most of the Japanese. There is a reason apple is still buying most of their panels from Samsung
Have to disagree with you strongly on both of your assertions. 4k is noticeable on any screen that you look at from a close distance, no matter what its dimension. Moreover, Panasonic plasmas are still king of the hill when it comes to affordable home theatre displays. To this day, no other display technology beats plasma for overall performance in the sizes that plasma is offered.
Are you kidding? Quite contrary, even if guessing from the small form factor. The 12-core model might be the hottest component and it is one 130 watts processor. The twin GPUs together are going to have the biggest thermal impact. But with a big fan on top of the cylinder shape the air will flow massively. Consider it an ideal turbine design. The only concern on that is how quiet or loud it may become under heavy work loads. But again a bigger fan produces lower decibels.
I hate to admit it, but I agree with the Nut…
I think people are missing the point, as long as there is reasonably priced expansion box I can buy and plug into my thunderbolt port this thing will sell like hawtcakes. There is a video online where a guy wired a high end graphics card to a thunderbolt cable and has high end games running on an 11″ MacBook air. Modular expansion IS the future. Why buy a huge server most people NEVER install anything into. Buy a base platform that you can expand in a modular fashion when I need it, just PLEASE come up with a efficient way to rack mount the damn thing…
Everything you are saying is possible, but we are not there yet. And this is a cause for concern on many professionals who think the external expansion options may put the new MP on a considerable higher owning cost. As an example why would we need to pay for a rack and/or an external chassis if the current or last generation Mac Pro include the expansion inside. The big size on a workstation is not a concern for many Pros.
To be honest I am exited because personally I don’t need to much expansion, just regular storage, and I care a lot for the smaller footprint. I am just salivating to discover if the machine will speed up substantially what I do.
Even if it doesn’t speed up what you do, it will be a major step forward if it helps improve your spelling.
Funny that as I look at trying to migrate my current hardware to the new Mac Pro, I find myself stuck with the fact that the old one is going to be the best expansion chassis available for the foreseeable future. I’ll have to get a Thunderbolt-Firewire 800 adapter, or maybe a new high-speed USB PCI card to make them talk efficiently. And then I’ll start collecting additional Thunderbolt accessories over the next few years as they become cheaper.
But I’d really like to see someone come up with an expansion chassis that elegantly sits under this thing, holds an optical drive (BluRay is now supported on the Mac by third-party software), and maybe a couple of RAIDable drives and a PCI card or two. Oh, and of course, it will need some easily accessible front ports – USB 3, Thunderbolt, and Firewire 800, as well as headphone and mic, since it will be tedious to keep spinning the Mac Pro around to plug and unplug headphones, mic, camera cords, iDevice cables, etc. Like I said above – the old Mac Pro will stay surprisingly relevant for the next few years at least.
That was not a high-end video card. It was a low-mid range card from last year, not much better than the default found in iMacs. And it was driving a small MBA screen with far fewer pixels than any screen you’d hook up to a Mac Pro.
I’ve posted before that the one major thing you cannot run to their max potential on Thunderbolt, is GPUs. Someone else benchmarked a similar card in an iMac, the host-device bandwidth was more than 2x the max bandwidth of Thunderbolt. The GPU in the video you mention was running at less than half its potential. A true high-end card (starting at around $400) would be totally wasted if run over Thunderbolt.
Damn…. 30mb cache…. Depending on which FirePro video card they use this could be a beast and be a great deal
Given Apple’s 7 TerraFlop spec it seems likely they will be using dual W8000’s at least for the top model.
Yes, beast indeed!
Great deal… depends on what you mean. I don’t think it is going to be inexpensive.
I would be pleasantly surprised if it were even as affordable as the previous generation MacPro’s (given the cost of the CPU and 2 GPU’s alone is likely ~$4K)
Tom says “In choosing the Xeon E5-2697 V2, you’re accepting lower performance in apps not optimized for threading, assuming that they’re not particularly taxing in the first place, and, in return, getting a massive boost in software able to utilize the processor’s 12 Hyper-Threaded cores.”
So the question persists: what percentage of applications available on the Mac app store are optimized for hyperthreading? How would one quickly be able to identify this before he purchases the application?
And what Apple applications are optimized for hyperthreading?
Apple needs to lead by example. If it expects the world to suddenly adopt Thunderbolt and a slower, more expensive multicore architecture, then it needs to lead the way with Thunderbolt peripherals and world-class multithreaded software. Get on it, Apple.
Consider the 12-core the top CPU option offered by Apple for the next Mac Pro, and already oriented for heavy multithreaded professional scenarios. But that is not going to be your only or default Xeon option. Intel offers a lot of 4 to 8 core CPUs higher clocked for single threaded apps. So the 12-core Xeon is a highly specialized and very expensive CPU. It will depend on what you need. Just don’t use a 12-core machine that will easily cost over $6-10.000 to run general apps.
But also the biggest speedup weapons on the new Mac Pro are the twin FirePro GPUs. If those are where Apple put their resources then expect full support from Apple on the OS, Pro apps and also everywhere they can.
Also I am sure for many users a single 4 or 6 core Xeon CPU with the twin FirePros and the proprietary Apple SSD will be excellent.
(typing this on a 2010 hexacore Mac Pro).
Pros are aware what processors Intel makes, and which ones Apple tends to offer. Problem is, few of us ever get to enjoy the theoretical power that more cores is supposed to give us, unless one is attempting to run intensive operations using 12 different apps at the same time. Apple needs to do something about this, but obviously it isn’t. There seems to be inadequate incentive for software developers to optimize software.
On the other hand, if Apple cajoled Intel into getting crazy with the i7 Extreme and instead of topping out at 3.5 GHz for a hexacore, lop off a couple of cores and hit a blazing 5.0 GHz. Toss it in the old Mac Pro chassis with superior GPU options, and watch it fly off the shelves faster than any 12-core machine offered.
Oh yeah, and old-timers would be dancing in the streets to still have the option to hot-swap old hard drives or PCI internals.
Mike,
Almost all of the pro apps are more than capable of keeping 12 cores at near max load.
Many (most) pro apps have a setting to determine how many parallel threads it should spawn (and/or they may auto-calculate that based on CPUs ID) However you can easily tell even on an iMac (i7)… how well can your application peg (100% duty) the processor use?
You will find most apps (and virtually all “pro” apps) can easily keep the processor near 100% (and for an i7 that means keeping (at least) 8 threads constantly running)
Windows and a lot of windows apps on the other hand are not particularly good at thread management (but later versions are getting better) Someone hanging onto XP will find multicore performance somewhat lackluster.
Note: Someone in the studio thought I was bashing windows, I wasn’t (though I do on occasion)
What I was saying (in the last paragraph) was; Tom’s warning (of possible inability of programs to efficiently utilize the power of new Xeon designs) is more about windows users (and particularly those still clinging to XP) than it is about OS X users.
I think Apple will price it a lot lower than everyone expects.
When intel sells processors to OEM’s, do they just sell them just processors or a whole motherboard? Maybe Apple could buy the CPU’s on mass and design and build the board for it using their team down in Florida. They have many ex AMD staff so building the boards themselves could potentially lower costs.
In the new Mac Pros Apple is designing almost everything out of the current standard from a workstation point of view. From the motherboard, GPUs, form factor, cooling system to even the TB expansion options. Maybe the Intel CPU is among the few standard pieces. But cleverly as I understand Apple is designing one machine that will fit from the standard configurations to every possible built to order option. This integral design approach and control may reduce the price to create a revolutionary workstation. But, but, but at what starting price.
Apple is creating a different workstation beast and that have us all nervous. From the starting price to the expected performance.
Agree, the real surprise at the time of release will be price. Apple has done this type of undercutting before and every time, it speeds adoption, quiets the omission complainers, and flummoxes the opposition. As for performance, Apple is not known for exaggerating its specs, unlike other vendors.
I’d be surprised if this thing is under 3K. I believe part of the lag from announcement to availability is to try to bring the cost down, and/or to prepare the small fraction of the public that need this power for the sticker shock. It’s obviously not going to be for the home user, whereas the old Mac Pro was often purchased by nonprofessionals or low-level users.
And as an aside, Apple has indeed been known to exaggerate specs and capabilities, but who cared as long as each version was better than the last?
I hope with Mavericks we’ll finally see an OS that can truly share the workload across multiple processors and multiple cores. Apple’s never quite gotten that to work efficiently, for all that they’ve been claiming it for over 10 years.
I do not plan on buying this thing that represents style over substance like nothing this side of a Government Motors Crapillac.
My need for a Mac Pro is not bone crushing CPU power but rather the ability to internally store lots of drives and the ability of a system to do many things at once that benchmarks of lightweight stuff like the iMac and Mac Minis do not begin to show. A Mac Pro can do a whole list of high demand stuff simultaneously that would have a laptop or a desktop built upon laptop components hurling it’s cookies.
The black trashcan will make a nice toy as a home theater PC and as a movie prop like the old Nakamichi Dragon Decks ($2k Retail Cassette Deck) once were, but will look like an abortion with a mess of cables to external drives and such. The proliferation of external devices will also mean wall warts everywhere and much greater net power consumption.
So we have an ugly, non user serviceable, iToi that will have more strings (high $ ThunderDud cables) attached than a Hollywood Contract, with wall warts in abundance. All the while taking up a lot more net space and consuming more power in the process than a neat all in one tower.
All Apple had to do is update the Pro in a slightly smaller and more power efficient form with current tech like USB 3 and improved WiFi. Instead we get a black trashcan designed for looks- not utility in a WORKSTATION. Kind of like how Ive was charged with getting rid of the faux felt and leather and took it as a mandate to copy Android Skins and completely change the iOS look with that FUGLY flat shit.
Apple needs to demote Cook back to operations and bring in someone who gets it. Maybe Tony Fadell could be coaxed back from Nest, but I doubt it.
USB 3 and Wi-Fi? In your ‘WORKSTATION’ that you’re using for “high demand stuff”??!??! Good one! At this point, you’ve made it pretty clear that don’t really need OR use a Mac Pro. Or, you’re using a 5-year-old one that you don’t really even know what to do with. If those are the two things that are so important to you, put two PCIe cards in a current-gen model and STFU.
iOS 7 fugly? Your opinion. Opinions are like butt-holes – everybody has one.
By the way, GM and Cadillac are building some damn nice cars these days. Style over substance? Have you seen a CTS-V lately? Have you read any of the press? Your ignorance is staggering.
Your arrogance is staggering.
I not only use a Mac Pro, I am on my 3rd in the Al Body Series going back to the G5- currently a Quad Core Xeon dating from 2010.
My reference to USB 3 and newer versions of WiFi refer to changes that have not been addressed since the last serious overhaul to the Pro. My networking uses both Wired and Wireless connections. As to internals, we do not all need PCI cards, but might need the memory configuration, connectivity and bandwidth unique to the Pro in the Mac lineup.
As to your lack of taste in cars, if you like the gussied up Crapolets marketed as Crapillacs, be my guest- the lack of quality is about the same. The parts on an Escalade will mount nicely on a Chevy Truck since it is a “luxury” vehicle according to Government Motors.
BTW- iOS 7 still looks like the bastard child of Android and Windows 8.
After your original post, you’re calling me arrogant? Hilarious! Pot, meet kettle!
OK, so if Cadillac is so tasteless, what do you consider a tasteful luxury car, one that normal people might actually aspire to?
I see almost no look/feel elements in iOS 7 that reference either Android or Windows Phone; certainly nothing that would deserve the “bastard child” moniker.
“iOS 7 still looks like the bastard child of Android and Windows 8”
LOL. It kind of does, really! And there are elements that Apple clearly appropriated (alright, copied).
I never had much of a problem with OS convergence, as that was inevitably in the general interest of both the industry and consumers. In the end, IP court challenges are little more than sideshows, even though settlements might impact consumer choice or costs or tarnish the snow-white reputations of alleged infringers. Whatever.
All that being said, is iOS 7 awful because it derived from parts of Android and Windows 8 UI that were bad, or that they became so as they were twisted in an artless blending?
Or is it awful because it copied them and, even if improving them, arrogantly ignored the accusations of plagiarism?
I’m OK with the answer that your remark was just a funny line, glibly tossed off. UI design, however, requires deeper analysis, as it’s the fundamental factor in consumer uptake.
Probably much easier to just wait and see if people go out and buy the damned things—rather than to expect, or hope, or suggest that they won’t, or shouldn’t, based on theory or personal preference.
Good one, Darwin.
Glorified Cube. I have the carcass of a cube to pay out my asswipe, and am buying the upcoming Mac Pro to hover my sphincter over to do my dumps. Because its black, the skid marks wont show so much … nice piece of design work Jobs.
Its a piece of shit.
First, this chip has NOT been released yet. How can *any* of you be beating up Apple for not shipping a computer when the CPU isn’t even shipping yet? Do you expect Apple to sell you the computer and say, “We’ll get that CPU to you in a month or so. In the meantime have fun with that pretty paperweight on your desk!”
Second, the rumored price for one of these chips when buying in quantity (which is how Apple buys chips) is well over $2,000 for one chip with some rumors running as high as almost $3,000 for a single chip when purchased in quantity.
Scale that to the entire system with those announced high end graphics cards and you’re talking about a computer that has a minimum price of $5,000 and could scale as high as $10, 000 or more.
Thus this chip might be a build to order option, but I highly doubt it will be the base unit.
One can go anywhere with these rumors.
Sounds great, but the new Mac Pro might be a little expensive. I guess, my good, ol’ 2010 Mac Pro will do the trick for a while. Also I won’t go for less than 16 TB (4 x 4 TB) built-in hard drive again. Plus 2 x 960 GB SSD for system plus files I am just working on, mostly FCP X- and Logic X-stuff.
I have to wonder when I read things like this.
Why would you insist on internal drives, it really makes no sense. I get that if you are a one man shop a SAN may not be worth the bother and expense, but why not a hardware raid?
Given that an external RAID would be faster, more reliable, more scaleable, and more serviceable than the internal setup (and given the small size of this unit would likely take up less space) It seems like a very odd deal breaker.
As far as I am concerned until they start selling the machine. This is vaporware. The time between the announcement and the release has been too great. Now they are probably in the mode up putting the greatest of everything in this machine and their QC can’t qualify the things for shipping fast enough (i.e. before the next greatest thing that has to be in the machine comes out). They should of just released it and refined it. Apple has done that its entire history.
Ok who ever wrote this should be fired. IT IS NOT a wastebasket design. IT IS A CYLINDER!
Fool…