“Computer whiz Steve Wozniak is more than a little distressed that the technology he helped develop nearly four decades ago is being used on a massive scale to invade people’s privacy,” Lloyd Grove reports for The Daily Beast.
“He’s especially troubled by the secret intrusions into the private emails of American citizens by the National Security Agency — secret, that is, until the recent detailed revelations of the NSA’s Prism program of electronic surveillance by a 29-year-old NSA contractor-turned-fugitive named Edward Snowden,” Grove reports. “‘I think he’s a hero,’ said the 62-year-old Wozniak, who co-founded Apple Computer with Steve Jobs and invented the Apple I and Apple II personal computers that launched a technological revolution. ‘He’s a hero to my beliefs about how the Constitution should work. I don’t think the NSA has done one thing valuable for us, in this whole ‘Prism’ regard, that couldn’t have been done by following the Constitution and doing it the old way.'”
Grove reports, “Wozniak added: ‘I don’t think terrorism is war. I think terrorism is a crime. And by using the word ‘war’ we’ve managed to use all these weird ways to say the Constitution doesn’t apply in the case of a war. And I think Edward Snowden is a hero because this came from his heart. And I really believe he was giving up his whole life because he just felt so deeply about honesty, about spying on Americans, and he wanted to tell us.’ … Referring to the secret proceedings of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, which reportedly granted comprehensive warrants for the NSA’s Prism activities, ‘Why do you set up a little private court? That’s like saying, ‘I need a warrant and I’m going to give one to myself.’ What it leads to is judge, jury, and executioner. It’s the same thing as lynch mobs.'”
Much more in the full article here.
Related articles:
DuckDuckGo search engine surges 33% in wake of PRISM scandal – June 20, 2013
Yahoo: Since December 2012, we have received up to 13,000 U.S. gov’t requests for customer data – June 18, 2013
Apple: Since December 2012, we have received U.S. gov’t requests for customer data for up to 10,000 accounts – June 17, 2013
Nine companies, including Apple, tied to PRISM, Obama to be smacked with class-action lawsuit – June 12, 2013
U.S. lawmakers urge review of ‘Prism’ domestic spying, Patriot Act – June 10, 2013
PRISM: Do Apple, Google, Facebook have an ethical obligation not to spy on users? – June 8, 2013
Plausible deniability: The strange and unbelievable similarities in the Apple, Google, and Facebook PRISM denials – June 7, 2013
Google’s Larry Page on government eavesdropping: ‘We had not heard of a program called PRISM until yesterday’ – June 7, 2013
Seecrypt app lets iPhone, Android users keep voice calls, text messages away from carriers, government eyes and ears – June 7, 2013
Obama administration defends PRISM data-collection as legal anti-terrorism tool – June 7, 2013
Facebook, Google, Yahoo join Apple in sort-of denying PRISM involvement – June 7, 2013
Report: Intelligence program gives U.S. government direct access to customer data on Apple servers; Apple denies – June 6, 2013
There you go…this defense could of been used at Nuremberg.
Truly one of the most idiotic statements ever to appear on the internet!!!
Woz should really just not be quoted anymore–he’s had nothing to do with Apple for decades–does anyone really care regarding his opinions ?
Woz….shut the $&@#% up!
Could of? Could’ve.
True. I was just thinking… The final solution came from the heart of Hitler! People are idiotic when they think there are no absolutes and the emotion or sincerity trump ethics, morality, or patriotic loyalty.
The Nazi metaphor card is way too overplayed. Save it.
I have respect for the Woz that was.
Not much respect for the Woz that is.
Now Woz knows what Oppenheimer & Einstein felt like. In my opinion the government & the NSA should let it be known what they are doing in at least a broad sense if they have nothing to be ashamed about. Cloak & Dagger may sometimes be necessary but often it becomes far too easy just to do it since you can and no one is looking.
This government is out of control, and Snowden is a hero.
Hero Snowden has now revealed (in words and deeds) that he sought the job to steal the information/documents, that he never availed himself of the outlets established for whistleblowers. He didn’t release the information to the NY Times or Washington Post but to a foreign newspaper noted for its pursuit of scandal, then flew to China and Russia to avoid arrest where he almost certainly turned over the purloined information to foreign intelligence agencies.
I would strip this hero of his citizenship, put him on the list of enemy combatants and offer a $20 million reward to anyone who delivers him (alive) to a US embassy anyplace in the world.
I’m not sure where you’re getting your information, but your source seems to be very much wrong.
Snowden NEVER obtained ANY specific information. All he did was tell the world how American secret agencies violated American constitution in order to obtain information about personal communication between American citizens from American public companies (such as Google, Facebook, Amazon, etc). No relevant spying information was EVER disclosed; only the details about how and when NSA got terabytes of data from Google and others. Again; NOT the actual data; just the details about how and when this was being delivered to the NSA.
Not a single bit of sensitive, personal or actionable information (terrorist-related or not) was ever released (or turned over to anyone).
There is absolutely no foundation in charging this man with anything other than perhaps violation of some confidentiality terms of his employment contract, which by itself was dubious to begin with.
You’re wrong. He illegally took tens of thousands of classified documents from the NSA. That is a crime. That said, I feel he did the right thing by letting Americans know what their government is doing to monitor us.
As to why he went to a British newspaper instead of the NYT or Washington Post, etc., well, that’s pretty obvious. This isn’t your typical whistleblower case, and thus whistleblower statutes weren’t going to protect him. He’s dealing with whistle blowing on America’s top spy agencies. He couldn’t trust that someone in the NSA wouldn’t get wind of his providing the information to the NYT, etc. and shut it down before it got out.
He also knew that if he stayed in the U.S. and tried to use federal whistle blower statutes, he would simply be arrested, charged with treason (whether appropriate or not), and stuck in a deep, dark cell with no outside contact. Any chance he would have at telling his full story, and providing all of the information he has, would be lost. So he used a foreign journalist publication to break the story and he ran to protect himself. Can’t say I blame him.
An article from USA TODAY referring to an interview
http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/2451403
The events in the Snowden saga happened on a day when a Hong Kong newspaper revealed that the fugitive told the paper he took his job with a contractor for the National Security Agency for the sole purpose of obtaining evidence on Washington’s cyberspying networks.
The South China Morning Post reported Monday that Snowden told it in an interview that he sought a position as an analyst with the consulting firm Booz Allen Hamilton so he could collect proof about the NSA’s secret surveillance program and make them public.
“My position with Booz Allen Hamilton granted me access to lists of machines all over the world the NSA hacked,” he told the Morning Post in a June 12 interview that was published Monday. “That is why I accepted that position about three months ago.”
In his interview with the Post, Snowden divulged information that he claimed showed hacking by the NSA into computers in Hong Kong and mainland China.
“I did not release them earlier because I don’t want to simply dump huge amounts of documents without regard to their content,” he said. “I have to screen everything before releasing it to journalists.”
Drag : You sign on the dotted line to not do exactly what he did. It’s that simple. Besides, anyone who believes that foreign governments weren’t aware of this is quite naïve. I’m not sure where you get your information but you don’t even understand the basics.
Predrag already covered your factually wrong statements. I’ll cover the innuendo/accusations:
“outlets established for whistleblowers” – known to be ineffective. His complaint would be buried, and he would probably be blacklisted. The people would still not know their rights were being violated.
“foreign newspaper” – you mean the Guardian’s US branch?
“pursuit of scandal” – you mean that reporting on something scandalous should be avoided? You support the idea that news organizations should just be press-release factories for the powerful? That is what many news organizations do. Snowden chose the Guardian because he knew they wouldn’t bury a legitimate story. Many others would ignore it just to please their buddies in the government and to keep friendly access and invites to fancy parties.
“strip citizenship” – so, you’re going straight for the “I love fascism” plan? At least your honest about your hatred of liberty, unlike the current dominant political parties in the US, who give lip-service to freedom while working to undermine it.
“enemy combatant” – has a definition. Does not apply.
The Obama administration has already buried federal whistle blowers in the IRS scandal, so Snowden knew those statutes would absolutely not protect him. He would have been arrested within hours of the information being released and never heard from again.
Enemy combatants list? Overreact much?
Agree with WOZ and Zeke.
In his own words:
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Snowden-secrets-job-leak/2013/06/25/id/511720
I with Woz on this.
If he were a hero, he would accept the consequences of his actions rather than running to our enemies to sell them information they can use to destroy us.
The consquence if he goes back to USA , he will and must be jailed as there is no fair .
Another idiotic statement!
I would agree with your statement if it were based on factual information. At this point, neither NSA, nor CIA or any other American secret intelligence outfit, has been able to determine that this guy has actually even offered to sell any of that information to anyone. Based on all information available so far, he seems to be holding onto his computer(s) and flash drives, and no data has been shared with anyone.
As for “accepting consequences”, that is a bit dubious, if we look at it from Woz’s perspective. If we accept the notion that this person has unmasked unlawful and egregious violations of personal freedoms of law-abiding Americans with no suspicious links or activities, and then the violators, rather than admitting mistakes and taking steps to remedy this, claim that this person committed treason and should be prosecuted, then something just isn’t quite right there. I don’t think anyone in their sane mind would be willingly submitting themselves to the judgement of the system capable of such civil rights violations, especially if he is the one exposing those violations.
Let us not forget, folks; Snowden never gave any SPECIFIC information about anyone. All he said (in some detail) was how American secret agencies obtained private information from American companies such as Google, Facebook, Amazon, Apple and others. To me, it looks like these agencies were caught violating the spirit (and perhaps even the letter) of the Constitution, and they are now angry.
It seems to me that the guy did nothing wrong, but if he were to return to America, he’d be prosecuted for treason.
Didn’t the colonies start revolution some 240 years ago because the Empire was doing the same thing to them?
That makes zero sense. How is he not accepting the consequences when he gives up his home and career and potentially his freedom trying to protect the rights of others? How is publicly disclosing secrets the same as selling them to “our enemies”? Since when do heroes have to unconditionally surrender to their adversaries? If every hero had to be a goddamn martyr, no living person could be heroic. Shit, if I took you took your bullshit “logic” back in time a bit, you’d be calling for General Washington to turn himself in for treason against the Britain Empire. I hope you wise up because there’s way, way, too many ignorant bastards in world.
“How is he not accepting the consequences when he gives up his home and career and potentially his freedom trying to protect the rights of others…”
—
Not to mention never seeing his pole-dancing girlfriend again. An admittedly cliche trait of a male hero is his placing the greater good above his love life (or sex, if love is too mushy for you).
Let’s see if his detractors counter by saying he had commitment issues or was going to break up with her anyway…
or another possible answer: no one except a person who has no other basis for complaint, cares about his girlfriend or personal life. If you are in a major car accident, do you care if the person that makes the 911 call is well-educated, has a stripper girlfriend, is a child molester, on and on. If you do, good luck in the next life…
I do not get what you’re trying to say in reply to my comment. I’m noting another consequence that he had to accept by doing this.
seemed derogatory to me by referring to his girl-friend as a pole-dancer, etc.
Not intentionally. Just repeating what other media already said.
And not that it should matter whether she’s gorgeous, plain, or unattractive, but the more attractive the girlfriend is, the larger the perceived sacrifice. Yes it’s a sexist reaction, but it’s hard to deny that’s what happens.
Snowden would never have been able to release more information or get his story out if he had stayed in the U.S. He would have been arrested, muzzled, and we wouldn’t hear from him for a couple of years. I’m sure the NSA and DOJ would have found legal excuses for dragging his case out, prohibiting him from getting some due process, etc. to keep him under wraps.
That’s nonsensical and libelous. He has specifically announced that he has not and will not sell information to anyone. Seriously, “to destroy us?” You’re nuts. That isn’t the kind of info he has.
Also, why in the world would it be heroic to turn himself in to be imprisoned and probably psychologically tortured by solitary confinement and other inhumane treatment? What would be the point? Would you do that? If so, I guess they wouldn’t need to psychologically torture you into insanity – you’re already there.
Snowden is not a “whistleblower” like Daniel Ellsberg (“Pentagon Papers”) was. Back then, Ellsberg revealed what the Executive Branch was doing and how it had been lying to Congress.
No. Snowden revealed Top Secret information about something on which all three branches of government had very, very carefully collaborated in order to prevent future terrorists acts.
And now that Snowden broke his oath to keep the materials secret, the terrorists are now adapting so their plans to kill Americans aren’t discovered.
Snowden is just a dropout from a community college who broke an oath he swore to. The decision this loser made to violate that oath far exceeds his pay grade.
His notion that there is no legitimate reason for a government—after broad and extensive deliberation and collaboration amongst its branches—to keep secrets and that absolutely everything can be told to everyone is utterly bankrupt. This is particularly true when there are terrorists with the mentality of Osama bin Laden. Bin laden sought, and received authorization from a cleric, who opined that Allah thinks it would be just grand to use a nuclear weapon to kill Americans—but only up to four million of them.
Snowden: You are a stupid twerp in short pants. You subverted the efforts of hundreds of mature, smart people in government who are trying to keep Americans from dying.
Greg L: You are a stupid twerp who unfortunately knows how to type. A pity for the rest of us.
Well, omalansky; the proper remedy to bad speech is
” rel=”nofollow”>better speech.
So let’s see you write something that is cogent and persuasive that doesn’t make you come across as a third grader.
“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.” – 4th Amendment to the US Constitution.
Now, to put it in 3rd grade terms, a warrant specifying the suspect, premises to be searched, and the information or physical evidence to be sought after is required by law. A warrant can be issued only upon probable cause established by specific evidence or a reliable informant that a crime has been committed.
A blanket search of phone records, email, and other utterances of Americans without probable cause and without a warrant is expressly forbidden by the 4th Amendment quoted above.
Now, what part of “ILLEGAL SEARCH” don’t you comprehend? The framers of the Constitution wanted to be very specific about the right of the people to be free from unreasonable search and seizure. This is the only Amendment that is so specific as to state a requirement for a specific document.
Which do you suppose is the higher loyalty? Should one uphold and honor the Constitution? Or should one subvert that duty in order to further the misguided aims of a government willing to ignore the law?
There is not one shred of evidence that the NSA and the DHS have produced any positive results with their egregious, overreaching, and unconstitutional practices. What they have done is set the stage for eventual government tyranny. Snowden is a hero.
Quoting you: “There is not one shred of evidence that the NSA and the DHS have produced any positive results…”
Multiple government sources have revealed that the monitoring has interrupted 50 terrorist plots.
As for your “Snowden is a hero”, you have odd choices in heros; Snowden had to defect to Russia. Some hero.
Try to follow along:
“There is not one shred of evidence that the NSA and the DHS have produced any positive results with their egregious, overreaching, and unconstitutional practices.”
There is NO evidence that any successes those agencies have had could not have been achieved without violating the law, alienating the American people, and destroying the Constitution.
Oh… I didn’t know I was dealing with someone who wears tin-foil hats to keep the NSA from listening in on their thoughts, or I wouldn’t have wasted my time.
Nonetheless, (*sigh*), I’ll respond to shear nonsense with reality (knowing full well you’d reject reality and substitute your own):
National Security Agency Director Keith Alexander told a House committee on Tuesday
that more than 50 terror threats throughout the world have been disrupted with the assistance of two secret surveillance programs that were recently disclosed by Snowden.
It doesn’t matter if you discount that as “Gumint misinformation”, the rest of the right-thinking world knows what’s going on.
I should have known better than think of engaging someone like you (too stupid to realize how stupid your are) and abided by the principle of
” rel=”nofollow”>Not Arguing On the Internet.
On July 9, 2012, when asked by a member of the press if a large data center in Utah was used to store data on American citizens, Alexander stated, “No. While I can’t go into all the details on the Utah data center, we don’t hold data on U.S. citizens.”
In March 2012, in response to questions during a U.S. congressional hearing from Representative Hank Johnson about allegations made by former NSA officials that the NSA engages in collection of voice and digital information of U.S. citizens Alexander was asked in a number of ways, and replied that, despite the allegations of “James Bashford” [sic] in Wired, the NSA does not collect that data.
At DEF CON 2012, Alexander was the keynote speaker; during the question and answers session, in response to the question “Does the NSA really keep a file on everyone, and if so, how can I see mine?” Alexander replied “Our job is foreign intelligence” and that “Those who would want to weave the story that we have millions or hundreds of millions of dossiers on people, is absolutely false…From my perspective, this is absolute nonsense.”
On June 6, 2013, the Director of National Intelligence James Clapper released a statement admitting the NSA collects telephony metadata on millions of Americans telephone calls.[14] This metadata information included originating and terminating telephone number, telephone calling card number, IMEI number, time and duration of phone calls.
Andy Greenberg of Forbes said that NSA officials, including Alexander, in the years 2012 and 2013 “publicly denied–often with carefully hedged words–participating in the kind of snooping on Americans that has since become nearly undeniable.”
But you believe everything he says. Who’s out of touch, again?
You think the Oath to uphold the constitution of the United States Of America is less important than the oath to the NSA… you need a serious reality check…
Snowden wasn’t asked to uphold the Constitution of the United States; Obama and all officers of the military are. Snowden was merely expected to not be a traitor. That’s so easy, even a dropout from a community college can do it.
Having worked as a civilian for the government… I can say without a doubt you have no idea what you are talking about…
Um, the oath I took when I (a civilian) got my clearance was to the Constitution. I didn’t swear to defend from enemies foreign and domestic, but I did swear to uphold it. But taking extra-legal action (to characterize it kindly) would violate such an oath.
What exactly did Snowden do to be charged with treason?
No sensitive data was ever disclosed. What Snowden did was to tell the world that NSA and CIA are spying on Americans, even though they always kept saying that they don’t. None of the actual information that NSA received form Facebook, or Amazon, or Google, was ever disclosed. Only the fact that these companies were providing access to all this data to the NSA, and that there was no transparent legal mechanism that allowed the legitimate government (those elected by the American population — the congress and the senate) to actually know about this, so that they could decide whether to approve it or not.
In a democratic society, especially one in which the ultimate legal document (the Constitution) clearly defines the boundaries of protection of personal information of its citizenry, it is ONLY those citizens (through their elected representatives) who can make decisions regarding the level of access of their personal information by the representative of their government, regardless of the purpose of such access. No law has ever been passed that would allow such level of access to private information. And due to the Constitution being such as it is, no such law could ever survive constitutional scrutiny anyway. So, if you believe NSA should have the right to access private data of Google’s customers, you will need to make changes to the American constitution.
Right. Obama and rest of the government that “very, very carefully collaborated” to commit violations of the Constitution ARE violating that oath. Snowden revealed that. In fact, he specifically said that an event that pushed him was watching the DNI lie to Congress about spying on citizens, which has been admitted to have happened.
In other words, the only possible traitors here are those who are attempting to turn every citizen into an enemy of the state. Snowden was attempting to protect the people from an out-of-control corporatist government that uses the excuse of terrorism to strip away our freedoms.
Krioni, I agree with your overall opinion except for the comment about Obama. This issue goes across the aisles. I saw an interview over the weekend where McCain upheld the NSA’s actions. Here is some additional info from The Washington Post:
“Nonetheless, the administration has found allies among lawmakers from both parties. Republican senators John McCain (Ariz.) and Kelly Ayotte (N.H.) have joined Democrat Dianne Feinstein (Calif.), who chairs the Senate Intelligence Committee, in backing the surveillance program.”
Question is: Who are you going to trust? Is the right answer no one?
These days, whenever both sides of the US political divide trip over themselves to agree with each other on something… it’s almost guaranteed to be bad for its citizens.
It sounds like you do agree. I said “Obama and rest of the government,” which means both parties. I think the Republicans tend to like spying on people more, but the Democrats are more likely to get away with it, since the media will be less likely to criticize them about encroachments on liberty.
I certainly don’t trust either of the corporatist parties. “Trusting” any politician is foolish. Maybe support one for a specific reason, but work hard to make them deliver on their promises. That requires being active.
Not sure what the big deal is. The information that Snowden has released has been rather vague to say the least, and to be completely honest in these days of high technology is anybody really that surprised that we are all spied upon? Snowden, could have potentially released what he knew without revealing his identity.
Just because Congress has passed a bill, the President signed it and a judge in a secret court signs off on search warrants does not make it Constitutional.
Our legal system is set up such that our government may pass laws, even unanimously, but in order for such a law to be examined by the courts for compliance with the Constitution, someone has to file a lawsuit challenging the law. To this date, no one has done that (at least not one which has reached a court decision).
So the government acts based on the passed law until a court tells the government that it can no longer do so because John Doe brought a lawsuit claiming the law violated his Constitutional rights. And that is the next step of this entire process.
He subverted the efforts of hundreds of immoral crimials acting above the law and above the constitution!! What part of that don’t you get? There is no valid reason. EVER!
In the name of terrorism? Bull fucking shit!
It would be an utter and epic travesty for this to go on undisclosed. This is a wake up call to all Amercans! Careful what you joke about with friends in your emails, the NSA might come knocking at your door. Today I’m very glad not be American.
Traitor!!!!!!!!!
Who would you be referring to: yourself???
Constitution: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.
The Supreme Court has interpreted this to mean that no one can commit treason unless it’s with a country against whom our Congress has declared war. This means that neither the Vietnam War nor the Korean War nor the War on Terror can yield treasonous Americans, as none of these wars were declared by Congress. The last declared war was World War II and the last American convicted of treason was Tomoya Kawakita, who helped the Japanese in WWII and was convicted in 1952.
trai·tor [trey-ter]
noun
1.
a person who betrays another, a cause, or any trust.
2.
a person who commits treason by betraying his or her country.
Traitor seems to fit the bill.
Did you not read the quote from the Constitution (…”levying War against the United States”…)?
You’d think, by the amount of spying of American citizenry, that the NSA is “levying the War against the US”…! By that definition, they are the ones committing treason, according to the American Constitution.
Repeat the first definition of traitor:
1. A person who betrays another, a cause or any other trust.
Traitor by definition!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mike, come on man… You can be a traitor to your wife but that doesn’t make you a traitor to the country. To do that you must fit Definition #2 which means you have to fit the treason bill… I am sorry you don’t have the capacity to understand simple logic.
A whistleblower (whistle-blower or whistle blower)[1] is a person who exposes misconduct, alleged dishonest or illegal activity occurring in an organization. The alleged misconduct may be classified in many ways; for example, a violation of a law, rule, regulation and/or a direct threat to public interest, such as fraud, health and safety violations, and corruption. Whistleblowers may make their allegations internally (for example, to other people within the accused organization) or externally (to regulators, law enforcement agencies, to the media or to groups concerned with the issues).
A traitor under the dictionary definition is NOT a traitor under the legal definition as interpreted by the Supreme Court.
He isn’t a traitor as he is exposing something that the government shouldn’t be doing. If he was looking to harm the country, he wouldn’t of gone public. Harming the country and exposing shameful behavior are 2 different things.
It was also revealed that the U.S. does not extradite white collar criminals of other countries and goes as far protect them. This is part of the double-standard government practices that needs to be further exposed.
Constitution: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.
The Supreme Court has interpreted this to mean that no one can commit treason unless it’s with a country against whom our Congress has declared war. This means that neither the Vietnam War nor the Korean War nor the War on Terror can yield treasonous Americans, as none of these wars were declared by Congress. The last declared war was World War II and the last American convicted of treason was Tomoya Kawakita, who helped the Japanese in WWII and was convicted in 1952.
trai·tor [trey-ter]
noun
1.
a person who betrays another, a cause, or any trust.
2.
a person who commits treason by betraying his or her country.
Yes he broke one of the two oaths he took that day… but he stayed true to the other “To uphold the constitution of the United States Of America”…. I think that oath is way more important than his oath to secrecy of the NSA. Anyone who disagrees must think our constitution is a joke….
Snowden did the right thing. The fear for terrorism is hurting Western values more than terrorism itself.
Yoda is right: “Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate; hate leads to suffering.”
I did not expect a Yoda quote in this discussion, but nicely done. Anyone else read it in proper Yoda voice?
Sorry, Woz. You’re a technical genius, but a moral imbecile.
Have you considered that Snowden is a scapegoat/canary/pansy revealing through MSM (controlled media) and verifying knowledge known and released years ago – but the MSM never picked up on it then? He didn’t “reveal” anything really new – and PRISM is only one of many functions being used to collect data on everyone. How can he be “breaking the law” by openly repeating what has already been known by so many for the past few years?
Have you considered that this is another psyop to take our minds off the 5 or 6 (or more) scandals taking place right now and being investigated in all branches of government?
How is it that a person can work for the intelligence community, transfer “all vital data to a thumbdrive”, walk out freely – and the intelligence communities say they don’t know where he is or what he is doing after he said emails can be tracked and government leaders can be easily blackmailed because tracking is so easy?
The Snowden “story” as presented doesn’t pass the smell or laugh tests – nor does Booz Allen.
Debating right or left (hero or traitor)(polarizing) regarding Snowden is a mistake. Watch what the other hand is doing as we are being misdirected to watch this evolving soap opera.
Those being paid to “uphold the Constitution” and obviously are not doing so are the real joksters – and the real traitors.
We already see the intelligence community knee-jerking on this “revelation” and the push is on to get fellow employees to rat on each other within government – or be considered traitors themselves. No one is “safe”.
Do you see any parallels to 1938-1939 Nazi Germany?
How does any of this tie back to Apple technology? Consider that Apple equipment is considered more or less trusted with our data ad “difficult” to decipher by the intelligence communities. Maybe Snowden is using an iPad and an iPhone. iWonder, don’t you?
Don’t believe anything you hear from the NSA, Obama administration, FBI, CIA regarding Snowden. They’re all in full spin mode, and there’s no way they don’t know where he is or what he has.
It’s certainly possible he took the documents he claims to have. If he has access to that information, then he could certainly copy it.
I keep seeing people harping on his being a high school dropout/community college guy. So what? He would not have gotten the job he has or the clearances he has unless he possessed some serious computer talent. And we all know that many, many extremely intelligent and computer-savvy people didn’t do well in school, dropped out of this or that, but possess amazing abilities and knowledge in computers.
You know, like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Woz, etc. etc.?
Whether Edward Snowden is a hero or villain, it is all depend on where you stand on this issue. One thing I believe NSA already is doing is that NSA might well be monitoring this MDN thread at this moment, and the words like “Edward Snowden” already in its “keyword search”. Anytime anyone mentioning the words “Edward Snowden” verbally on phone or write it in email, txt…etc will automatically trigger NSA’s recording apparatus. 🙂
We should all expecting FBI put some kind of tracking device beneath our cars and knock on our doors very soon. 🙂
Wait until that iWatch is on everyone’s wrist all day. Apple can’t be trusted until we replace everyone in government for people in favor of the Bill of Rights, plain and simple laws instead of never-ending legalese (to help expose grabs of power) and an end to all wars including the wars on drugs and terrorism which can only yield Pyrrhic victories at best.
This soo reminds me of the TNG episode “Paradise Lost”. A Lot of Americans are running around so scared of terrorists that they are willing to destroy the very way of life that they want preserved. You can hear the fear – they just shout „terrorist” often and loud enough and that tramples any argument or logic. Just look closely at some of the comments here – which ones sound like Picard, which ones sound like those going for a coup in that episode?
Exactly. If you give up your liberty, you are definitely NOT safer.
That was Deep Space 9 – but otherwise, good reference. Great episode and very applicable. When people give up their own rights due to fear and terrorism, free society loses, and their enemies win with their work already done for them.
I wonder which comments sound the most like Captain Sisko? “You are obviously under the mistaken impression that I’m asking a favor. I want a name, and I want it now, and that is an order! Understood?” “You cadets did some sloppy work – some damn sloppy work!”
I for one subscribe to the theory that while our country and government is the best in the world, we should never trust it blindly, particularly when it comes to security, war, surveillance, and other police actions. Government is political by its very nature, and people in charge of various parts of it have agendas (good, bad, or other).
Some of these other scandals prove that government can’t be trusted without monitoring activity. Actions by the IRS, NSA, DOJ, and other agencies are simply pushing more and more into our personal rights, and that can’t be allowed. Sure, those agencies have jobs to do, but they must do them within the confines of the law and protecting our rights. Otherwise we no longer have the best, most free society on the planet.
Woz on Snowden article: 54 MDN comments
Education market on iOS7 article: 6 MDN comments
This site is beyond hope.
I deeply apreciate (not) that most of the posts here think that it is wrong for the agencies to spy on americans but have no problem with spying (invading the privacy) on the people and governments of friendly nations…
“It’s terrible if it’s done to us, it’s great if it’s done to others” seems to be the mantra. And you are surprised
As I was saying: and you seem suprised that more and more friendly nations aren’t beeing very friendly anymore?
I regard Daniel Ellsberg as a hero for publishing the Pentagon papers. He revealed to America that the insane war their government was fighting was based on a lie. Snowden (aka TheTrueHOOHA) is hardly a hero. He betrayed his oath, his co-workers, and his country. In broad strokes he revealed to the American people nothing they didn’t already know, that the NSA monitors phones and internet looking for terrorism connections. They’ve done this for 50 years, and have only gotten better at it, and made great strides to overcome the challenges that they faced in the transition from the analog to the digital age. Data mining the numbers called in the phone system is a no-brainer, and hardly invades anyone’s privacy in any meaningful way. And PRISM is carefully targeted only at overseas intelligence. The notion that the NSA has shredded the 4th Amendment is just ridiculous. But Snowden did reveal specifics that brought great harm to these critical programs, including revealing the IP addresses of the computers the NSA hacked in order to spy on the Chinese, and he revealed details of how the British were spying. The Russians now almost surely have all his data. It all is extremely damaging to our intelligence efforts. He fled to the two countries who are the world leaders in the war against freedom of speech and thought, and you call him a hero? You’ve got to be kidding me. Oversight can be strengthened, but I was in NYC on 9/11, and I do not want to ever again see another attack like that, especially if it happens because our intel capabilities are damaged because of pressure from a bunch of whining, confused, hysterical and ignorant people with fantasies that their government is spying on them. Well, if you get a call from a known terrorist you will be spied on. Otherwise you can rest easy and stop defaming the good people who work in the intelligence community. You should be thanking them instead.
On 9/11, the NSA did not bother to use its very sophisticated warning systems to tell the Commander in Chief there was an attack on the country. That would make a much more interesting investigation than the motives of Mr. Snowden.
Remember what Benjamin Franklin said:
“Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection deserve neither” All the snooping on American citizens in the name of security is another example of our freedoms being eroded little by little. There is no reason our government needs to be monitoring all of our communications. If they have specific information on a person or group of persons has done something wrong, or is planning on doing something wrong let them follow our exiting laws for wiretaps, etc. Monitoring everything while hoping to discover something is wrong.
Not so little since 9/11 – big ginormous steps that neither party will actually do anything about, even when their guy gets the most powerful seat.
I know that I’m NOT on board with all of the government-sanctioned spying on its citizenry, and I may even sympathize, to some extent, with the sentiments of Mr. Snowden, but I also know that I’m NOT on board with the notion that just because it came from the heart that it is, by default, ethically and morally ok, [what Mr. Snowden did]. The heart always needs to be intact, but it the heart must also always follow the mind, not the other way around.
I do not know if Snowden is a hero, but am sure he is not a criminal. I am quite sure that the for profit data thieves under contract to the government and the elected officials and civil servants that enabled this ARE criminals and enemies of the United States ( the nation – not the dysfunctional government).
The United States government did not grant us our rights and has no right to infringe them without our informed consent. The fear-mongers in D.C. have tried to suppress the very existence of this activity and have shat all over our laws. Elected officials and commissioned officers have failed in their oath to protect the United States against all enemies- foreign and DOMESTIC.
Snowden is the ‘Paul Revere’ of our generation. Make me want to shout “the government is coming, the government is coming”!
So true, so true indeed.
I have been highly critical of NSA since this incident and I have lost a great deal of respect for Obama, sadly. Feels like he has been consumed. He should have had a spine that day, that press conference. He should have declares that this was wrong and that he would shut down this program at once. And I am also dissapointed at CNBC and Bloomberg for
Instead of condemning this act of the NSA 99% of their reporting has been about how Snowden could be brought to trail and what charges he would face…. They have opinions on everything always, that’s how those channels work. But on this issue not a single reporter has the spine to say that this was wrong… Instead they bring in “security experts” that can talk freely what a terrible person Snowden is and how he will be punished. I find it all appalling and spineless.