The consumers dont want to have to think and play like they’re on their ipads. The Creators want the file system, the dev tools, the execution babysitting turned off, the fullscreen to work on more than one monitor.

The divide is between Mac users and Mac Pro users and since Snow Leopard the latter have been forgotten by Apple.

Time was that Mac Pro was the best place for pros.

Until Apple fix this, Im having to do increasingly more config to get pro work done.

Save as workflow should be a system-wide switch into Pro mode.

Not correct!

Please at least try you remedy before posting and defending Apple’s imposition of a downgrade solution.

Duplicates (as do versions and renamed copies) lose their history and previous versions are available ONLY from the point of duplication.

[snip]
this is accomplished by File > Duplicate. Done.

Duplicate, save a Version and copy/rename files LOSE their “history” – in other words – the ability to restore to previous versions as is possible with the original files is gone.

I too deplore Apple’s imposition of kindergarten-level computing on its more experienced user base.

There are valid workflow reasons why Save as… is a good (often the best) option. It’s a pain to read comments by people who obviously do not have a need for such workflows. If you do not know or understand other users issues, please do not butt in with ignorance and devalue their legitimate pleas in the eyes of Apple.

Why does Apple not allow a preference settings (Advanced) that gives a choice and support all their users?

If Adobe omitted Save as… there would be a global groundswell of protest, because their users know why Save as… is a valuable and necessary workflow tool.

Apple software used to be made for pros too, but, goaded by their iGadget success, Apple Inc. is now a consumer gadget maker, appealing to the consumer masses (the lowest common denominator) with their OSX as well. Two different worlds.

Omitting a functional Save as… is just one of a huge number of detrimental changes from Snow Leopard onwards that are shackling the OSX and making it increasingly less capable for competent users.

When innovation stops, tinkering begins…

By your logic, you should be able to direct the bits to the specific hard drive block of your choosing, or dictate the memory address of any piece of data. At some point, the OS is providing services to you and you are giving control to the machine.

But it’s worth giving the new method a chance. It may work just fine for most people. Just not for we-the-geeks.

However I really don’t understand why the luddites are complaining about the very useful new commands Save and Duplicate.

Save works as it always did. The first time you use it, it allows you to choose a destination and a name for the file. If you Save again, it saves. One difference is that compliant software remembers any unsaved documents, so if I’m restarting or shutting down, I don’t have to run around and close all the windows, like I have to do at home before a storm. The other difference is that the OS stores all the versions, sort of like a personal SharePoint.

The Duplicate command is an improvement over Save As. I can work on a duplicate of a file without closing the original and without saving it until I decide I want to keep it. I could duplicate the file in its present state, then return to the original file and revert it to a previous version.

I like Save and Duplicate.

If Apple is right, and they’re right far more often then they’re wrong, in a few years time we’ll look back at “Save As…” and wonder why anyone ever used such a clumsy system.

——RM

The computer is supposed to work for me, I am not supposed to work for it.

There is no reason why you cant have it your way and I cant have it mind. I think Apple is capable of writing the OS software either way. But somebody in side of Apple has decided that re-inventing the wheel is a way of putting their personal signature on their time in office.

Worked for two major auto manufacturers in Southern California and have seen that situation many times, and had it cause many bad ideas to seem wonderful.

Change for the sake of change, stupidity on steroids.

Nowhere else in the world do we perform work that is not actually done until we do one additional “incantation”.

Appel is moving in the direction of real-world concrete metaphores. Years of losing work in traditional “editors” have caused a stokholm syndrome and people brain washed in these geeky concepts will find it difficult to change. Let them rant while we all move to the more natural way of using computers.

Word processors have been trying to give you WYSIWYG user interfaces for years. If you have to “save” your current document before you make a new copy (save as), then what you saw is not what you got on the original document.
An even simpler analogy is comparing to paper. When you make a photocopy to make changes (save as), your original document does not revert to an arbitrary point in time.
In the real world, you would make a copy BEFORE you make changes and that is exactly how the new save as operates.
Once people start thinking real world instead of computer geek world, then they will see that the name of this function is all wrong. Perhaps it should be called “duplicate”.

Hell, we all use QWERTY keyboards, and they don’t make any sense at all. But can you imagine the howling if Apple decided to switch them out with Dvorak? People don’t want to relearn something they already know how to do, even if the way they do it isn’t the best.

And that’s completely understandable. Just don’t delude yourself that your way of doing things is “easier” and “more intuitive” just because it’s what you’re more comfortable with.

And if you’ve only been using a computer for 20 years, I’ve got a few years on you, son.

——RM

I vote for that argument based upon nearly 20 years of experience. And when people finally grow up, they start trusting the people with experience. But, don’t trust me, I don’t care what you do.

——RM

Bean and some other aps still have Save As. I have been assuming that works traditionally. Makes it easier for me when I’m using them.

After reading the article I understand better how the new system works. My opinion is that the new system is quite good for most.

For those it doesn’t work that well for I can nearly understand removing it to get people into the new way…but CHANGING it is absurd. Such a vital command to change and a change that won’t be found to later? Probably when you have a customer on the phone…it’s a bad move by Apple

Maintain a log with a description of the changes you made to each file, and the time you duplicated it. Before, by making a small change to the file name you could accomplish the same function. With Duplicate, you have to choose a file name at the time you duplicate, not the time you do a Save As. With Save As, you had control of when you made that call, after you did the work, and at that point you say yes or no, I want to keep it.
With Duplicate and autosave, you dont really know for sure what is happening and with the new emphasis on filing by Application as opposed to Folders, you can easily accidentally lose track of where your work went. Ask those of us who work every day creating content., not the entertainment consumers. We dont care what the 7th graders want.

And I am going to have to start invoicing for the time it takes to do all this.. It wont be pretty for me and for my customers.

Here is the real problem. Most of you arguing that Apples new way is the inevitable wave of the future are casual users, entertainment oriented users to whom it does not matter as long as they can listen to Justin Bieber. And know about not much else.

Mac and iOS are two completely different tools with different ways of working. Apple saying it can merge the two will not make it so.

So you would need to know you want to save a copy before you do any edits…unlike save as

Scrolling through a historical record (versions) of the document to find the right document to retrieve is plain silly. This isn’t how we want to save because saving a document should require input from the user.

Now, if you feel like you suffer from Alzheimer’s and need the system to autosave for you, you should be able to check that option. You shouldn’t need to have autosave shoved down your throat.

So ‘duplicate’ can kiss my ring.

What’s Tim Cook’s email address? I feel like he needs his inbox filling with a serious piece of all our minds. Will he listen? Who knows, but a great OS needs defending when fools who think they know best dare to impose it upon those who actually do.

Apple, Fix this! ASAP

I know what is right and wrong in this world and am going to continue in that belief, let the chips fall where they may.

I have no more time for theoretical discussion, the real world awaits.

There is a good chance that you may not own content you create with software you use.

About 15 years ago I was looking to create a cross-platform, digital publication and was checking out a particular developer’s graphics programs that came in three versions; what could be called”lite”, “consumer” and “pro” iterations.

The “consumer” version met all my needs, but the developer had “requirements” about how an end user could use the software. An end user could not use the “lite” or “consumer” versions to produce digital files for commercial purposes.

I would have had to purchase the more expensive “pro” version simply because I was going to use the software for commercial purposes.

And here’s the thing… this limitation of usage was not in any EULA fine print (I ended up not buying the software and killed my project as a result), it was in a comparison of features chart on their website.

Telling me what I could or could not do with what I produced with their (un-warranteed, like every other developer; even Apple) software would tend to make me think I don’t own what I create with such software.

And in today’s absurd legal/judicial environment, I wouldn’t be surprised that a court wouldn’t uphold any developer’s right to what any end user creates.

I keep hoping that a court case will come up that will result in having EULAs (as they exist now) declared invalid.

However it seems that Apple may be fouling the nest by making change for the sake of change with no benefits, or at least very dubious benefits.

All I am asking for is the fewest number of steps that allow me to save the file in a transparent work flow that I control since I DO, in fact, own the file.

When you make your living creating content on a Mac, and have often over 100 files from 5-10 separate apps in a project folder, it becomes very irritating to have to put up with what sometimes appears to be severely over-caffeinnated ADHD seventh graders “working” as operating system engineers saying: Hey, wouldn’t it be COOL if we changed THIS just for the sake of change? Trust us!” I also work with those “7th graders” on a frequent basis, and believe me, if one of them says “the sun is out” at noon, send 6 competent adults to verify it before you act upon it!

Have been a Mac user since 1988, and only in the last year have I been required to build a manual tracking system to keep track of “versions” I now put project numbers on EVERY FILE that is a part of a project folder. It has increased my cost of doing business by probably 20-50% in some cases.

I am sorry that some people just cant understand how that could possibly be. Very sorry.

I would agree that there is no place to go, staying on Mac assuming that things dont get more out of control. It has certainly made me do things in a more disciplined way, I will say that. Do I credit Apple for that? I suppose I have to…..but …

Good change is good change, and bad change is bad change.

To believe in change for the sake of change is the finest example of a 7th grade mind.

It’s called File > Duplicate.

I still don’t understand why that is confusing for anyone.

Then came Lion, a big step down. No really big problems with it, but a boatload of “fit-and-finish” deficiencies–things that were perfect in Snow Leopard had deteriorated slightly, like someone made a poor decision. I continue to use Lion because I have already done the upgrade, but having started my Mac life with Snow Leopard, I feel there is nowhere to go but down.