“Apple has been working on its file system and with iOS it had almost killed the concept of folders — before reintroducing them with a peculiar restriction: only one level! With Mountain Lion it brings its one folder level logic to OSX,” Oliver Reichenstein writes for Information Architects.
“Classic folder systems don’t perform too well. One reason is that organizing folders is engaging in the tiring discipline of information architecture. Information architecture is hard brain work,” Reichenstein writes. “The folder system paradigm is a geeky concept. Geeks built it because geeks need it. Geeks organize files all day long. Geeks don’t know and don’t really care how much their systems suck for other people. Geeks do not realize that for most people organizing documents within an operating system next to System files and applications feels like a complicated and maybe even dangerous business.”
Reichenstein writes, “With the introduction of Mountain Lion, Apple is about to make a major change to its file system. Your files will be tied to the app they were created in. Each application comes with its own little file browser, the Document Library… What makes the Document Library better than a template chooser is iCloud, with its one level folder structure. The problem is that the concept is not obvious enough. Yet.”
Read more in the full article here.
Introducing: the walk-in closet file structure!
Well… all good and fine unless u actually dont want them sorted by app but according to tasks u do or actual workflows…. like a whole project with excel sheets keynote files and images …
… to organize my files and to reduce the amount of information begging for my attention at one time.
This is not arbitrary!
But yes, I am a “geek”. Don’t like it? Stuff it.
That includes you geeks at Apple who just want to be “accepted”.
+1. No kiddin’.
Can somebody describe more fully what is going on? This sounds like a complete disaster. Going to the operating abilities of the lowest level is not how to develop a “real” operating system. iOS is very clumsy compared to having a hierarchical file system that I can develop and modify. I don’t know how many actual files I have, but it is a VERY large number. And they need to be classified by client – not by bloody app!
If this is as bad as some people are painting it, I guess I might have to spend the rest of my life on Lion.
For most of us on here, file management isn’t hard to wrap your head around. And as Hansolo says, for project centric work the app used to create a specific file is less important that to what project/client/campaign/etc. a file belongs.
I really hope Apple can play the line between making it easier for consumers & average office workers, and keeping the power & flexibility of a full file system for the rest of us.
What we need is a “play at home” version of iCloud. A system based on Mac OS X server that lets us build our own configurable cloud system for our users with Mac & iOS devices.
What we need are separate consumer and professional versions of the OS; one for all the socialites and for people who care more about working than socializing or the iOS-ification of the Mac OS.
in my opinion they already fucked us in lion. All the important directories are ‘hidden’ by default… User, libraries, application support…
… talking about “looking for” yesterday (the day before?) was in a Library. It was hard to locate – impossible? – until I broke out Terminal and brushed the rust off my Unix chops.
This is good, but the problem is what do you do with lots of related files in different apps. Say you are doing your taxes. You have the return in TurboTax, several spreadsheets in Numbers, scanned documents in Preview, and other notes in Pages. How do you group these all files from different apps into a “Taxes 2012” group?
For consumers the answer should be that some smart developer builds an app that allows you to store all that together in a slick interface, along with all of the accounting data you’ve entered (like keeping photos in your Facebook account, or the way you manage Songs in iTunes not in the Finder).
Of course then you have to A. trust the developer to not corrupt or lose the files, and B. make sure you’re happy being stuck with that developer forever. A little hard to accept.
Try DevonThink Pro. It leaves the files where they were originally stored (if you choose the “index” option) and you can easily located them from within DTP. But within DTP you can group them into a filing system to your liking. The files are never converted to anything so they can’t be lost or corrupted by the app.
How about a FOLDER named “Taxes 2012”?
I think the reason that’s not the long-term solution is that most people (including many smart people who happen to have mental blocks with technology), folders are simp,y too abstract to “get”. It drives me crazy, but it’s just true.
Even in a building full of designers and video editors and web developers, I’m astonished how poorly people organize and manage their files. I know lots of lawyers, writers and even project managers who couldn’t organize their project files to save their lives.
We’ve seen that if people are dealing with their music (iTunes), their photos (iPhoto), their notes (Evernote), their emails (Mail), their appointments (iCal), their apps (App store), they can cope with managing and organizing a large amount of stuff. Give them three “files” to manage and they’re stumped.
… admit that most people are not well suited to setting up a system. Like … my wife.
Perhaps Apple could provide options? The default being “all files segregated by App”, with options to create “project-based” folders, perhaps. With system access to get complex?
Erm, don’t get this…
If I create (say) a magazine or brochure, then any particular edition folder contains movs, jpgs, tifs – all sorts, but they need to be in the same place so I can look at them.
Or can I ignore the sensation of impending doom??
The folders didn’t go away- Apple just hid them so Buffy and Tad at the Sorority/Fraternity house won’t FUBAR their new MacBook Airs.
I don’t see what all the fuss is about…. the folders are hidden not invisible… go to the various applications folder and simply transfer your files to the project folder… It adds one level of extra work for me… but it also reminds me to do a backup of that project folder…. and just because Apple made something easier doesn’t mean they dumbed it down. For anything but special projects I like that they automatically file my documents.
Apple’s nanny state crusade is well underway. Ooh, file systems and folders are hard. I don’t want to hurt my brain. I have to watch American Idol tonight.
Apple needs to realize that not everybody is a retard. If this gets too pervasive and not able to be backed out, Linux distros will start to rise as viable desktop environments for people that are not retards.
I don’t think you understand how businesses operate.
They make a products that generate the maximum amount of revenue/profit.
Apple is making a product for the everyday user. The user (as you put it) watching American Idol. A product that appeals to the needs of the 99%.
Sure the geeks will get their panties in a bunch of the the changes and scream from the roof tops.
(After all those who generally talk about something will complaining)
All the while Apple will continue to have record quarters selling millions upon millions of devices.
Just plain idiotic! Created by people who don’t do any actual complex work with the Mac.
Just imagine, what does Tim Cook do with his Mac? He’s got people do all the grunt work for him.
To some small extent, I agree that the concept of folders is difficult to grasp for some, but only because of the default way they are shown. Icon view hides all of the folders. List works reasonable well, but you have to scroll a lot. Coverflow is pretty, but pretty worthless. Column view makes the concept of files very straightforward and easy to navigate. I find it odd that Apple is giving in and letting people just throw all their files in one place as opposed to making a file system that is actually easy to use. Spotlight searches, which is Apple’s answer to organization, require the user to name files in a recognizable way. Unfortunately, that is just about as likely as it is for people to organize their files. Neither of these is a good option, it is just changing how the disorganization will happen.
it doesn’t require sensible file names for text. Just a sufficient amount of knowledge of the content of the text to type in the key words.
I will add one more thing. When you have 5 documents that’s ok but if you have let’s 100000 or more.
Well then you only see 2000. Interesting. Works for some people. Not for all.
Snow Leoard forever!
1,000,000,000
This is about as sensible as arranging all the books in a huge library by what kind of printer was used to make them, rather than by what matters — the topic and sub-topic. In the case of the computer, that’s the client or the project, not the damn app. The app is UTTERLY trivial.
+1. Sometime one doesn’t know what format the info came in, as a webarchive, a pdf, an email, a scanned document, etc.
In addition, and, apparently not mentioned by anyone here, is the fact that most of us have a more or less personalized layer or organization on top of the file system. Will this be broken if Apple forces restrictions on the way we MAY organize things?
Sell your Office Depot stock. Apparently the average American can’t grasp the concept of putting papers in a bundle, then grouping the bundles into file folders, drawers, and filing cabinets together in a file room. Perhaps Staples can develop a device to manage all our papers in a single bundle. That’s great for people who only generate a few dozen documents a month, but a bit hard on those of us who will have to locate one out of tens of thousands of documents stored in a single bundle/flat file system.
From the article: “Update: I hope that you realize that… Mac OSX Lion still has the normal file browser.”
Thanks for pointing that out. The article made me very jumpy at first (I’ve downloaded ML, but not yet installed it). I need to organise files by task and topic, not by app. And I don’t think that makes my “geeky”.
….makes *me* “geeky”.
It doesn’t, and I’m not sure what the original post hopes to gain alienating geeks. I think it’s more a matter of how iA (the word processing app that the author makes) has fully embraced iCloud’s features, and there may be some outward venting of inward rationalization going on with regard to the paradigm. In essence, it’s in his interests to see it this way.
Keep in mind that the iPad cannot be used for most serious work.
It’s all fine if you have 8 files, but when you have 490 files, then what?
To all us, tech (“geeky”) types, the traditional, hierarchical file-folder structure instinctively seems logical, flexible, reliable and efficient file management system; certainly, much more logical, efficient and accessible than the single-level, app-based system as introduced here.
The problem with the old hierarchical system is that it is completely counter-productive unless meticulously devised and consistently implemented.
I work in an office that has had this one job filled by four different people in the past seven years. This person was responsible for maintaining documentation for our network, server, application and other services for the entire department (600 users). This was originally meticulously designed by the first person (very organised, thorough and methodical “geek”). Subsequently, various people kept expanding it and adding folders, sub-folders, putting various documents into those folders, until it grew to a branch of five top-level folders, each with some 10-20 sub-folders, each of these with another dozen or so sub-folders. So, when I needed to find the document covering our web-based survey application, do i go “Operations -> Applications -> Web applications”, or do I go “Systems -> Servers -> Tomcat Apps”? Or at least a dozen other similarly logical paths to such a document? On several occasions, I gave up digging for the document and tried searching for a file name using plain Windows file search (with moderate success). If all of the 2000+ files of various type (Word, Excel, PDF, Visio, etc) were accessible to Spotlight, I’d likely find my file in about 3 seconds, and the file’s place in the hierarchy of folders would be totally irrelevant.
Since the introduction of Spotlight, I have pretty much abandoned grouping my files into logical folder groups. Spotlight has yet to fail finding content, even if the file name is an indecipherable string of characters.
Predrag, please see my solution to your problem (for Windows – free):
FileRainbow – available from http://www.everclearsystems.com
It lets you organize by tagging with attributes, so the problem of folders disappears, as there are no folders. Well, physically the folders are still there, but my app gives you another “layer” on top. It’s all done with pointers; the files themselves are unaffected.
This is much ado about nothing. The finder and the existing symbolic file structure aren’t going anywhere. This is just one more option for people who want documents available across all their Apple devices. The format remains HFS+ on the Mac.
What the article is talking about is the one level folder structure for documents in a particular application that has versions for both Mac and iOS devices. You have the option to save directly on Mac like always and also to save to iCloud if you want to open and edit the document on an iOS device.
People should calm the heck down.
No, no, no…
Anyone can organise files in a finder window. Anyone. If users can understand the one level file arrangement that Pages for iOS has organised on their behalf then they can understand a two level file arrangement system in Finder which they organised themselves.
If Apple think the system folder confuses things then hide the damn system folder. Even hide the application folder & replace it with LaunchPad if you must, but DON’T limit my filing to just ONE level.
Answer me this: What the hell is an academic in the middle of a PhD going to do with a one level file arrangement system?
What is a busy law practice going to do with a one level file arrangement system.
I’d suggest installing PathFinder.
Folders are “abstract”? Are you kidding me? Are you seriously suggesting that you can’t understand how all files from a particular project should be stored together and not all over the place according to their file type You can’t understand how arranging your applications by the work they do makes it easier to find the right tool when staring something new?
The single folder system is just plain silly. We organize our lives all the time: Do your kitchen cupboards contain “food” or do you place all your cereal near each other and apart from soup? Do you have a sock drawer that may or may not be sub-organized by colour or do you simply have a “clothing” drawer? Some people organize their clothes by outfit rather than item but even then, we still break it down – either dress shirts, t-shirts, tanks/gym OR business, evening, casusal/relaxed, workout). Why are you suggesting that we can’t organize files just as easily? Organizing files in your computer is exactly the same as files in a drawer – that is why they have the same name!!!! (desktop, documents, files …)
Why should I have to remember the names of files when I can simply sort things by their purpose? Drill down filing systems are perfectly logical and hardly complicated:
Projects > House > Renovations > Kitchen > Inspiration > Storage
Projects > House > Renovations > Kitchen > FloorPlans
Projects > House > Renovations > Kitchen > Lighting
or Documents > House > Amenities > Major Appliances > Fridge
Photos > Vacations > Alaska1997 > ShoreExcursions > Zipline
Photos > Celebrations > Family > Mom70BirthdayParty
Photos > Family > Holidays > Christmas2012 > OpeningPresents
Documents > Household > Bills > Phone
or Documents > Finances > Bills > Hydro
Documents > Recipes > Desserts > Cakes
Documents > Recipes > SideDishes > Vegetables > Potato
Or Documents > Food > Recipes
Documents > Food > Restaurants
If you are having trouble grouping your life into categories you need some special help. Clearly there are many ways to choose these major (top level) organizational structures (i.e., do you want to sort your photos by “relationship” or “activity”: family/friends or celebrations/vacations … and so on for documents) but that is decided by how your brain works. Once basic categories start the sort you continue to break it down into groups that make sense.
I have thousands of files on my computer … trying to remember their names for a search or locate them in a massive list is an outrageously stupid concept and not having items that are linked together living together makes more work for me every time I want to access it. In order for a search to be effective, I’d have to have a pretty strict method of file naming, which is much harder than simply sorting things into folders. Further, having different files or many types associated with a particular project is exactly why folder structures are necessary – so I don’t have to go searching for each piece of the puzzle anytime I want to use it.
How about I not get bootstrapped into just one way of organizing my life by someone who is providing me tools? How about not requiring me to purchase someone else’s idea of how things should be done when I am capable of doing it on my own – if you need a special program to keep all your yearly tax documents together, great – but I am quite able to create:
Documents > Finances > Taxes > 2012 > Receipts
Documents > Finances > Taxes > 2012 > IncomeStatements
Documents > Finances > Taxes > 2012 > Notes
iTunes is a massive database with a LOT of fields by which you can sort … but if you really want it to work for you, you are going to add tags of your own to create smart folders and playlists. Do you really not recognize that iTunes is just a giant spreadsheet?
BTW, there is nothing stopping you from putting notes into the “Notes” section of the “info” screen on ANY document or folder on your computer and using spotlight to find them based on these notes – just like the database search engine that it is!
Clearly business documents that are meant to be SHARED, should be in a centralized area so you don’t have to understand individual file structures, but for my personal workspace, the system that makes sense to me is the one I should use. Once something is ready to be shared, meaning it is part of a group task, then the group should decide the place based on guidelines set out by the organization for which they work. Nonetheless, the principles remain the same. Just like any shared library, there should be an index and a catalogue that clearly outlines the structure to be used and followed when entering a document into it. If you think your team members are too stupid to follow a map, then you need to check your hiring practices or not include these people in a team.
For those who really find this hierarchical file sorting a problem, how about you spend your money on an Organization Coach and have them help you set up something that makes sense to you rather than continually purchasing software applications that don’t? There are plenty of us out there providing these services.