“Apple Inc.’s plan to bring 3,600 new jobs to Austin is ‘in peril’ and the giant computer company is growing frustrated with delays in approving an incentives deal by the Travis County Commissioners Court, according to one of the key players in the local recruitment of the company,” Kirk Ladendorf and Farzad Mashhood report for The Austin American-Statesman.
“Dave Porter, senior vice president for economic development at the Greater Austin Chamber of Commerce, said Thursday that Apple’s plans to bring its Americas operations center to Austin are up in the air because of the county’s continuing deliberations and calls for new conditions on its incentives deal with the company,” Ladendorf and Mashhood report. “‘This deal is not done. It remains in peril. And Apple is frustrated,’ Porter said.”
“The county has been considering its offer to Apple since late March. Although the Commissioners Court gave initial approval to the deal April 17, the details of its incentives plan came back up for discussion on its latest meeting Tuesday. After hours of discussion, the county put off a final vote on the incentives contract until next week,” Ladendorf and Mashhood report. “Apple is proposing to create 3,600 new jobs in Austin over the next decade and invest $304 million here as part of its plan to create a major operations center here to run most of its business operations for North and South America.”
Ladendorf and Mashhood report, “The county’s decision to take another look at the incentives offer to Apple came after opponents of the deal raised questions at Tuesday’s Commissioners Court meeting. Bill Aleshire, an attorney and former Travis County judge, and Ed Wendler, an Austin-area developer, picked through the county’s draft final contract with Apple, pointing to parts of the contract they said will allow Apple to fall short of the requirements by the Commissioners Court. Responding to Porter’s comments that Apple is frustrated by the county’s most recent action, Aleshire said: ‘I’m not sorry that Apple is frustrated. … That’s a sorry contract.'”
Read more in the full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: Hey, whatever. You don’t want the jobs and all that comes with them, Travis County? That’s fine. There are plenty of places, run by people with brains, that do.
Hey, Travis County Commissioners, have fun come reelection time, ya hear? 😉
Related articles:
Travis County considers giving Apple 80% tax break for Austin campus – April 5, 2012
Austin city council unanimously approves $8.6 million dollars in incentives for Apple Inc. – March 23, 2012
Texas Governor Rick Perry announces Apple to invest $304 million, create 3,600 new jobs in Austin – March 9, 2012
Probably something to do with SamDung!
Or more likely Michael Dell–it’s his hometown.
… NEEDED to intervene personally. Though he might have. These are people who bought his machines voluntarily … which means they have a twisted view of “the Truth”. Sort of like the political “moderates” vs the wing nuts at either end of the spectrum, or the religious moderates vs the radicals that claim to be True Believers while defiling the basic tenets of The Faith – not being open to “thinking” and “facts” can be limiting. Sort of the same in Austin.
These people are commie-lemming-idiots, just like you!
… the roses. You think I’m a “commie” – do you even know what that means? – even though I attacked the radical Left with the exact same terms as I used against the radical Right. You call me a lemming … do you know what that means either? or is it just another hot-button? … despite the fact that I attack the various right wing religions – “Christian”, “Jewish”, “Muslim” – which are the major source of mindless followers.
So, are you merely a mindless troll? Or a knee-jerk radical? Or just a hot-button-pushing know-nothing? I believe a bit of all three. They say “on the Internet, no one knows you’re a …” … guess what – we CAN tell. Ignorant, stupid and just plain brain-dead are pretty obvious to the vast majority of us who are not so encumbered.
In internet-commentary-thread-pidgin, the word “commie” is simply a catch-all pejorative used to mindlessly dismiss a post that is either disagreeable, or most likely, misunderstood.
If this were a home improvement blog, and you said “I prefer Andersen doors” a Pella fan would call you a commie lemming kool-aid-drinking sheeple.
You and Eff-idiot are commies!
Case in point. Thanks for the illustration.
I think it’s a subset of Tourette’s Syndrome
No it’s not “case in point”. You really are a lemming-troll. Please stop trying to steel from the hard working you communist!
Steal, not steel. Unless you’re suggesting he’s doing something with resolve.
Michael Dell bailed on Austin.
Dell initially tried to get up to ten years of tax abatements on any new facilities in Austin, but scaled that back to three years after the city balked. Negotiations went on for six months
Mikey finally said “screw this” and in 1993 turned to the nearby suburb of Round Rock, which offered a generous package including twenty years of property tax abatements and $50 million in tax-exempt industrial revenue bond financing. Dell was also offered roughly 40% of sales tax revenues collected by Round Rock on Dell’s sales.
Could the opposition have to do with “Bill Aleshire, an attorney and former Travis County judge, and Ed Wendler, an Austin-area developer” not having a piece of the action? That is a common pattern in such things.
Well, we could use some jobs in Compton, Watts, or Pacoima?
Puh-leez. Even without tax breaks in Austin and tax breaks in Compton, it would still be cheaper for Apple to expand operations in Texas.
Research Triangle Park in North Carolina. Suspect they could get land and incentives.
I can support that view. Apple – please come to RTP.
Hey, Oregon could use a few good jobs. We’ve got an unemployment rate that’s among the highest in the US. We’re also the home of Intel, Nike,and Columbia Sportswear, so it’s not like we’re a 3rd world location.
Compton!!! That’ll be the day. Handout city.
MDN you’re retarded. The Travis County Commissioners will have a much harder time with re-election if they approve a tax break for the world’s richest company. A minuscule tax break that is meaningless to Apple as they will increase employment in Austin anyway (let’s be serious Apple isn’t going to put a campus in Lubbock because the type of person Apple wants to hire doesn’t exist in Lubbock). But the millions in giveaways will be a huge deal to Travis County as they try to build the infrastructure to support the workers and the schools to educate their children.
1. You throw around the word “retarded” as if such people had a choice in being born that way.
2. Because you casually throw around “retarded” as a put down, I have zero respect for you, hence I shall now refer to you as “Stupid Fuck.”
3. Stupid Fuck, from the full article: “Many of the jobs to be created would be for entry-level help-desk workers. City of Austin officials, including Mayor Lee Leffingwell, have praised the deal because it would create good paying jobs for workers with two years or so of college, which is less than many tech jobs require.” Yes, even Lubbockites could handle it.
4. If you don’t understand the benefit of 3,6000 new jobs to an area in terms of property taxes, sales taxes, shopping at area businesses, using area services, buying/renting area real estate, etc. then you are most certainly a Stupid Fuck (and very likely a Liberal Democrat).
5. Travis Country will approve tax incentives for Apple Inc. Guaranteed.
Makes sense. #4 especially. After all, Liberal Democrats don’t understand how capitalism works and they also love to make fun of the mentally retarded:
Ad hoc government tax breaks at the local, state, or federal level are *not* fundamental aspects of capitalism, F10T12. In my opinion, your view of the world is full of illogic and contradictions.
I personally don’t like the tax break “bidding wars” that have broken out in recent decades. Many of them have resulted in losses to communities because the businesses either failed to meet job creation numbers, or pulled out after a few years without ever covering the government-provided incentives. It appears to me that many local and state officials are unprepared to negotiate contracts of this type, and the eventual loser are the local and state taxpayers In addition, these special deals are an open door to corruption. Several friends of Governor Perry in Texas have received millions at taxpayer expense. I have no doubt those favors will be repaid after retirement.
If you were a true capitalist, you would support a level playing field in terms of taxation without special government deals. If tax rates were driving jobs away for a given state or locality, then they could choose to reduce tax rates for *all* companies to incentivize greater business investment. But they should not issue a special deal for a favored company.
If you have a different viewpoint on this subject that you would like to share with idiots like me, then I would be glad to hear it.
And you are not a True American, you commie Queen Smell. Only a lemming wouldn’t notice or purposely pretend not to notice all of the great things this would do for Austin. So take your stupid comment Queeny and shove it!!!!!!!!!!
I do recognize what an Apple facility will do for Austin. I have been to Austin many times. I have two relatives currently living in Austin. I am not anti-Austin – it is a nice place, although short on water.
What I have been advocating is a fair and balanced taxation approach. That is, if the state or local government lowers business taxes or offer a tax break, it should apply to all businesses equally. Apparently you find it convenient to support government control when it gives you an opportunity to oppose “liberals” (i.e., anyone who disagrees with you).
Well, anonymous “Larry”…or should I call you Truth Fact, or Bob, or Rand? You are a joke even to the majority of the far right who post on this forum. You are dissing people who are more thoughtful, considerate, and rational than you. You obviously cannot hope to succeed on your cognitive abilities. We don’t take you seriously – you are like the drunk, obnoxious guy at the party who paws the ladies until he gets tossed out. Do yourself and the rest of us a favor – get an education, a sense of perspective, and a new country, because you are attempting to poison this one with your irrational bile. Reason will prevail.
Your name suits you Very Well doesn’t it Sucker………!!
No, they’ll put it in Phoenix, idiot.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/03/17/BUIS1NM3Q8.DTL
I’m a little ambivalent on this:
If those “requirements” are good, reasonable requirements, then Apple should have to fulfill them like anyone else.
Of course, if those “requirements” are dumb, then they should be eliminated for everyone.
There is no way I would support giving one of the largest, most wealthy companies on earth incentives for expanding their operations. Yes, the jobs are important, but so is the survival of cities and towns across the country. For years, companies have been holding cities hostage like this, and it is time that it ends. A company with billions of dollars in cash doesn’t need any tax breaks at all. If they get a break, then eventually my takes have to go up to make up for it. I love Apple and their products, but they are the last company on earth that needs a hand out.
Don’t be a dumbass all your life, son.
Amen!
Your POV represents approximately 0% of conventional wisdom on the topic.
Incentives are the things that determine where larger businesses land, because they could do it anywhere. The justification that “Apple has so much cash” has absolutely no value. It’s the value of the incentives weighed against the value of the corporate presence. That extends beyond property and sales tax breaks for the company; the people employed will get no such breaks and will contribute significantly to Austin’s tax base.
There is a tipping point at which the value of the incentives could outweigh the damage to the tax base, but there’s no indication that this is happening here. With 3,600 jobs in the mix, the list of cities that would give their left nut for Apple’s presence is about as long as the list of cities. This isn’t Walmart we’re talking about here.
+2. PS the incentives such as no tax for 10 years cost the city exactly nothing. If Apple does not come, they get nothing spend nothing. If Apple comes they get no taxes from Apple but from EVERYONE else and it cost them NOTHING.
Just a though,t
It would cost *something* if you assume that the presence will generate additional demand for trash hauling and other municipal services that would otherwise be paid by taxing the business. It’s a marginal cost above the existing use, especially if the site is already developed.
In the scheme of things, it would take a helluva lot of concessions being forced by Apple to be worth the balking on display here.
I posted a response to F10T12 above. Rather than reposting it here, I would like you to read it. There is a lot of conventional wisdom in it, despite your statements.
There are many factors that will drive a company to locate in a given area, taxes being one. But states and municipalities are getting reamed in many of these deals.
I cannot reconcile how you can oppose taxation of citizens, in general, but turn around and defend the use of the same tax revenues for targeted, ad hoc incentives to a few companies while the rest (including all of the small businesses whose welfare you claim to zealously protect) get zilch, nothing, nada. Tens of missions to Apple and none to Joe the Plumber. Explain that illogic, if you will.
Because Apple will provide a shit load more jobs to the area and provide area with tax paying employees with money to spend, dumb ass!
How much more clueless could you be Queen Smell????
Taxes are evil and should only be at the bear minimum to support the smallest sized government possible.
Only a completely brain-dead-LEMMING would think otherwise. Up yours!!!!!
The quality of your debate responses would improve greatly if you would learn to spell. You might also consider buying a few IQ points at your local IQ store. Then you wouldn’t have to have multiple user names to hide your shame.
So, basically, you advocate taxation as a bear necessity of life?
Shrink the government first, then shrink the taxes. Bush took the opposite approach and the bill has arrived. At this point, even drastic spending cuts will not be sufficient. It will take a combination of spending cuts and increased tax revenues to reach balance and stop the deficit bleeding. Anyone who thinks that economic growth will painlessly solve this problem is smoking crack, because it will not.
The specifics of the deal will always create outliers, but the evidence that an Apple presence would benefit a community is overwhelming. You keep saying “Joe the Plumber” gets “nada”. Perhaps you’re not familiar with the magic of economic impact. Let me give you a rough primer.
Assuming Apple (the corporation) gets an (indefinite) tax break on property taxes (where none currently exist), they will hire/employ 3,600 people. It stands to reason that at least some of these jobs will be relocations (i.e. new residents). Each of those new residents pay taxes on:
-Property they own
-Things they buy
This benefits:
-The tax base of the municipality
-The small business owners you so staunchly support
In addition to what are called “direct benefits” (money from employees to municipality and businesses), there are also secondary and tertiary benefits. For example, increased selling to mom and pop will lead – at least partially – to additional hiring and spending on the part of the business to support the additional customers.
And I’m just talking about the people employed here. The corporation itself will also make purchases, ostensibly some of these will come from businesses in the community.
I’m not making this shit up: it’s basic math. Google (or Bing, if you like) “economic impact statements” and open a window to this glorious new world of knowledge.
I did not dispute the fact that a major Apple presence would eventually result in a net positive for the Austin community in terms of overall tax revenue. What I clearly stated is that I believe in a fair and balanced taxation approach. That is, if the state or local government lowers business taxes or offer a tax break, it should apply to all businesses equally. I happen to believe that, certeris parabis, a community with a fair and stable tax environment will attract and retain businesses far more effectively that one that “buys” companies with ad hoc tax breaks.
Your justification sounds good (it will benefit everyone), but it is actually just another version of trickle down economics – give the money to the big guys and the “secondary and tertiary” benefits will trickle down to the rest of us. Why should the state and local governments have the power to choose tax “winners” and tax “losers”? Looking at it from another viewpoint, why should Apple get favorable tax treatment in comparison to an Austin-based company that has supported the local economy through direct, secondary, and tertiary means for years? Why should the government effectively subsidize Apple’s cost of doing business in Austin?
Your response was puerile. I am no idiot and I did not accuse you of making anything up. You completely wasted your time with the “Economics 101” primer – I understand logic and the math. But you apparently fail to comprehend the rest of the issue. and you are looking at the math and failing to see the rest of the issue.
Enough…
The breaks don’t and can’t apply equally because the value of adding Apple jobs is not the same as adding Walmart jobs. Attracting businesses through incentives is a major function of city planning that separates thriving cities from failing ones.
FYI, I’ve participated in these conversations, so this is not a reading from “Economics 101”; it’s based on real-world negotiations. It was likewise not meant to be an assessment of your intellect. Incentive structuring is a complex, nuanced exercise, that belies a facile “trickle down” label, but the fundamentals of it are pretty straightforward.
Actually, you were rather condescending. And, yes, the fundamentals are rather straightforward. Fundamentals generally are…
The issue remains – do citizens want their state and local governments bidding for the favors of private businesses? These are the same businesses that largely fund elections and spend huge sums on professional lobbyists with inside connections to buy favoritism and weaken good legislation for their own short term benefit. If you look at it from a system level, the people lose. This practice leads to corruption and waste of government resources at the expense of the rest of us.
If you want government to keep its hands off of the private sector, then it applies across the board, not just when it is politically convenient. I believe that the practice of state and local governments bidding for businesses is, in the end, a losing proposition. Offer businesses long term stability with reasonable taxation and streamlined regulations, and the smart companies will put down roots. Stability rules, and communities don’t really want the incentive chasers. Communities need good corporate partners.
And just who are you to say that the “breaks don’t and can’t apply equally?” The approach that I advocate essentially eliminates ad hoc breaks in favor of general tax legislation. You don’t have to choose between “Apple” jobs and “Walmart” jobs. My point is that state and local governments should not attempt to legislate favoritism of one over the other. Besides, in a few decades, who knows which business will be of most value to a local community? Some communities probably bet on DEC or Wang or Xerox or Bethlehem Steel…
Government should provide a good economic framework, solid infrastructure, and reasonable regulations and taxation. Given that, the businesses and jobs will tend to take care of themselves.
You want the business, you make the offer as good as you can. If not, the next town down the road or in a neighbor state will make a better offer.
Why would a smart company like Apple piss off it’s shareholders and pay more than any other company would have to pay?
I completely understand your position Jeff and acknowledge the merits. Being from California, I have to. Such ideas are the foundation upon which our State and municipalities run on. As such we’re bankrupt, the state is trying to raise taxes on everyone, we’re hemorrhaging jobs while importing the poor of another country, our middle class is vanishing, the fastest growing entity in the state is the state government, we are regarded by most as the worst state to do business in, and even or flagship Silicon Valley companies like Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, and HP are building multimillion dollar data centers and R&D centers outside the state to avoid our taxes and regulations. It is counter intuitive, but lower taxes create jobs, bring higher educated and better trained people, more businesses, and ironically greater wealth to the state coffers, as well as benefits and services to the poor.
Higher taxes cause the centers of wealth to shelter their wealth looking for better opportunities to use it, and you wind up with situations where the gap between the rich and the poor gets greater.
It’s not evil, or greed, just economic reality.
I moved here from Texas. While California has the resources/opportunities in my chosen profession. I gotta tell you this state is ass backwards. Too much regulation, govt. money grabbing (everywhere), and taxes. I’m moving back to Texas even if the weather is great in California. It’s not worth it. California had sent a group of senators to Texas to see what Texas was doing that they were not doing since Texas was thriving. They still haven’t learned a damn thing.
Thelonious Mac – Well said!
If only the lefty libbies could understand simply logic and fiscal reality our state might have a chance, but I’m not holding my breath. If my job were not centered here in hollyweird I would get out and I was born here. It’s despicable what the pols have done to destroy this great state.
California’s problem is not the party this is, or is not, in power. It is the most shitastic state Constitution in the nation that enables special interest groups to alter the state Constitution WITH A SIMPLE MAJORITY VOTE. Compare to the U.S. Constitution which may only be altered with a 2/3 vote in Congress and a majority in 3/4 of the state’s legislatures (or conventions).
Go to Hell. You made no sense whatsoever, idiot!
Agreed, Jeff. Even if that makes us some of the only clear-headed thinkers on this site.
Apple doesn’t need the incentives, and cities shouldn’t have to bid against each other to get businesses to move in. Austin is a phenomenal town; that alone is part of why Apple wants to move there.
It’s like sports franchises that expect cities to build them stadiums, while keeping all the profits private. I always applaud cities that don’t fall prey to schemes like that. If you can afford a billion dollars to own a sports franchise, you can build your own damn stadium.
No, you’re both not looking at reality. Local municipalities need to attract large, good paying jobs to their counties/cities. There’s nothing they can do about weather or location, but they can make it easier for a company to locate there with tax breaks and other incentives. Also keep in mind that many of these tax breaks are just delayed tax payments, to be recouped down the road, meant to assist with relocation, construction and infrastructure costs.
If you guys don’t want your city participating in this type of company recruitment, fine. We’ll take them in our town.
Apple, Phoenix is perfect for you!
Phoenix gets close to 120 degF sometimes. It was 117 degF the last time that I was there. Apple is not putting a facility in Phoenix.
Look, the problem is that municipalities and states (i.e., governments) are competing for private sector businesses by providing targeted tax breaks. That is wrong. It “works” only because every locality has stooped to participating in the bidding war. The tax money that is not collected on those businesses has to be made up by the rest of the tax base. So it isn’t “free.”
Note that I am not against lowering taxes. Taxes should be as low as possible while meeting spending obligations (no deficits) and maintaining infrastructure, law enforcement, judicial services, utilities, emergency services, and community support activities. Other than that, the government should be hands off. If Rand Paul were the Republican nominee, I might have voted for him. He holds some extreme ideas in some areas, but he also has some refreshingly simple ideas regarding the role of government.
@kaplanmike…
Question….
Let’s say you’re in the market for a new Mac.
I’ve got one, brand new, $2000. Exactly what you want. I’m going to charge you $2250 though because I’m including sales tax on dollars you’ve already paid income taxes on, and I’m taking on a $50 recycling fee.
My next door neighbor is charging $2000 + a 1% sales tax.
Which of us are you going to buy the computer from? Just curious?
your neighbor, obviously, although he would never admit, freaking Hypocrite! Just like all LIbtards.
Apple has approximately 0 dollars in cash. It’s shareholders for which the company officers act in their interest, have approximately 100 billion in cash. That cash is share holder property and is not intended to gave Austin or any other US or non US city a hand out.
Certainly if Apple expands in Austin it will pay taxes there as it pays taxes everywhere it operates. But the odds of them expanding in an area that works hard to earn their business through incentives and other beneficial arrangements is the location where there will be more high paying jobs as a result.
Believe me, if Austin does not want the jobs, then other places do.
By the way you’re ignorant attitude about the “corporate welfare myth” is very old and tiring. Give it a rest.
The article is woefully lacking in details. On the surface, Apple investing over $300 million and getting a $36 million tax break seems like a pretty good deal for the county.
Corporate incentives for location of facilities is a form of blackmail. It matters not which company is involved. Infrastructure, social services, education and healthcare have real costs associated with them. Even in laissez-faire Texas there is real money involved here. Part of the difficulty in strengthening the economy is factoring in all of the bribery that goes along with this practice.
Here in Wisconsin, both sides of the political argument have passed these incentive deals only to watch as these corporate folks decide to move elsewhere for whatever reason they choose.
I say scrutiny is called for here
Another idiot.
Apple, take the jobs and put them where smart people live, not where unemployed former Dell assembly line workers and a bunch of cloistered college town “professors” blindly live out their days “scrutinizing” things to the point of inaction.
Speaking of idiots, you clearly have a problem with universities, don’t you. And yet, you’re an Apple fan.
Why do you think Silicon Valley is where it is? It’s not because of the climate, taxes or other intangible. Silicon Valley grew up around the Stanford campus in Palo Alto, CA because a lot of the smart people who went to school there decided to stick around and start companies, starting with HP.
All those “professors” “scrutinizing” things helped develop the technologies that college dropout Steve Jobs brought together. Or do you think it’s uneducated people who invent things??
+1
“Or do you think it’s uneducated people who invent things??”
Although he seems to have briefly attended two more schools, nearly all his childhood learning took place at home. Thus arose the legend that Thomas Alva Edison (born February 11, 1847) became America’s most prolific inventor-1,093 patents for such wonders as the microphone, telephone receiver, stock ticker, phonograph, movies, office copiers, and incandescent electric light-despite his lack of schooling.
You don’t have to go to college to be educated. And simply going to college is no guarantee of becoming educated. The key aspect of the people you identified is that they were insatiably curious and educated themselves.
Back to this local subset of the thread:
Way to go kaplanmike. You completely tore F10T12 up! He tries so hard to sound erudite. But he is a poser.
There’s a time for scrutiny and that time is during the preliminary negotiations. That time has passed. Austin thought enough about the deal that they brought Apple along to the point of closing it, and now they’re double-clutching. That’s a show of bad faith.
Even if Austin and Apple come to terms on this particular deal, you can bet the company will think twice about making another investment there. As I’ve pointed out, having an Apple, Inc. presence in your local economy is a luxury that cities all over the country would kill for.
Normally we Brits like to take a back seat whilst you Yanks slug it out ad nauseum over anything vaguely or even totally non- …political in these posts, but here goes.
I can’t see why exercising ‘due diligence’ is so contentious from whatever political perspective you espouse. After all, the purpose of having elected officials is so that all business deals are open to scrutiny rather than individuals doing back room deals on your behalf with a payoff that benefits only one person rather than the community.
Incentives should work both ways – for businesses and the wider community, especially when the economy is tight. Why does it make sense to bend over and take it, when your actions can be misinterpreted by the opposition…and will be, come election time.
Here in the UK, we have seen a spate of planning approvals to the supermarket giants building stores in smaller and smaller towns, where promises of local infrastructure improvements have not materialised because local officials did not exercise due diligence at the contractual bargaining stage. Those promises often later turn out to be mired in lawyerspeak conditions that mitigate against the possibility of enforcement because they lacked the legal muscle of big corporations to fight in the event they(businesses), don’t deliver. I guess it’s the same the whole world over and should be a concern to everybody – surely?
For the life of me, I can’t see this as party political in any way and Apple, for all it’s colossus status, does have a social conscience as witnessed by its actions to address concerns about working conditions in Chinese factories. Why the heck wouldn’t we want those same concerns to be exercised in its home country?
Arguing otherwise is akin to permanently tilting the playing field to the home side’s advantage and that would rebound badly on any business – particularly Apple.
The rationality you espouse is something we’ve worked hard over the years to eliminate from all public discourse. In this, at least, we’ve been quite successful.
Lol…I’ll get my coat.
Spoken like the true Socialist that you are. No wonder your country and the entire EU basically, is spiraling down the toilet. You fools wouldn’t know a good thing it if you stepped in it. There is a very massive reason we separated from you brain-dead-marxists to form the US. Take your advice and shove it!
What a Patriot you are. I guess you have be something other than smart. Were you just dropped on your head a lot?
The man had sound talking points, and your response is name calling and juvenile “I”m better than you speak”.
I’m going to bet you’ve never let the US have you? I mean with all the plotting pinko’s out there, how could you?
How about you run along and enjoy your TV dinner, FAUX news is waiting for you. Don’t eat it too fast though, I know you are a mouth breather, I’d hate for you to suffocate.
*Note to proud Americans: The British are not Marxist. They are our allies, they helped us defat communism.
The commie had nothing but communist drivel. And of course only a Lemming like you would stick up for that disgusting, Marxist-ahole. There is a very important reason Americans disbanded from the Tyranny of the UK. Only a troll like you wouldn’t understand that. The EU is an Entitlement joke-nightmare. You freaking liberal-tards will completely go down with the ship before you’ll ever admit what misery spreaders and destroyers of all that is good, you are. Fuck you!!!!!!
OK Bonehead.
My grandfather fought and died alongside Americans in WW1. My father and his brother fought alongside Americans in WW2 and S. Korea. My cousins in Australia fought alongside Americans in Vietnam. My son has done 3 tours in Iraq and 2 in Afghanistan alongside Americans.
And you have done exactly what for your country or even the free world?
Yanktard, the world despises you.
You Limey’s should have learned something from all of us GREAT Americans stepping in to save your asses war after war. That lesson would be Capitalism = Greatness; Socialism = HELL!!!!!!!!! So take your advice and stick it where the sun don’t shine. Get some braces for your teeth while your at it.
If the British are our allies why does your dear leader, Maobamanidagene hate them so much?????
@San Fran Sal
You mean like Jonny Ive and ARM Holdings, two great commie Brit institutions, stepped in to save Apple’s arse?
Get a clue; better still, get an education – it will serve you well when you grow up and while you’re at it, get a PC, it’s more suited to your cognitive abilities.
Jonny Ive is a great designer, but American – Steve Jobs stepped back in to SAVE Apple.
And he told Maobama he would be a one term president!!!!!!!! You ahole.
The UK is socialized and chock full of commies.
Maobama does not think of the UK as our ally.
“The British are not Marxist. They are our allies, they helped us defat communism”. Tell that to Maobama who gave back the Winston Churchill gifts you idiot.
I have British relatives. The British are Marxist-Socialist-Commies, period.
Europe is spiraling downward because all the right-wing politicians, like Cameron and Sarkozy, that they elected have implemented austerity budgets (like Ryan and Romney have proposed for the USA) that have dragged their economies back over the cliff. The exact opposite of socialism.
You are clueless and a SUCKER! What a complete and absolute MORON-IDIOT!!!!!!!!
You are far too rational for this forum, fricfrac. Welcome to the fray! There are more than a few people who are of similar mind and would like nothing better than to engage in thoughtful discourse. Unfortunately, there are a few registered malcontents supported by a few anonymous ones, as well, that regularly turn this forum into an infant daycare facility full of whining and crying.
When I find myself wasting too much time responding to close-minded people who will never compromise, I have to back off for a while. I believe that I have reached such a point after posting several times above. But I was glad to read your contribution.
Cheers, I don’t know what came over me but the monstrous mountain of stupid is a tad hard to resist on top of a couple of strong Kenyan AA coffees 🙂
WTF… I give up…Sir Jonny Ive is an American!!…see above. Honorary yes, but he’s as British as aluminium… Not aluminum as you say.
Yes, I notice the rabid posse of anonymous flies that cluster on the corpse of political meh, is getting too much.
Sir Jony wil be shocked when this news reaches him.
Next we will read that Norman Foster, Baron Foster of Thames Bank, whose firm has designed the next headquarters of Apple, has been named manager of the New York Yankees.
Get real tbone. These incentives pay for improved roads, improved electrical and other access. Apple’s employees would mean another 3,600 workers employed and paying payroll taxes, local sales taxes, property taxes, and spending their money at local businesses. If they lived there already, they may make more income or move off of the unemployment ranks to the employed.
This isn’t blackmail, as some idiots have cried out. Apple holds nothing over Austin to force it to give up more concessions. Apple will simply go elsewhere if Austin decides not to offer it, just the same way you would take a different job if that company offered you more money or better benefits.
Liberalism IS THEFT!!!!!!! IS MISERY!!!!!!! IS TYRANNY!!!! AND SHOULD BE ILLEGAL!!!!!!!
They left because you cheese heads probably formed unions and drove the costs of labor through the roof while working at a snails pace. You LibTards can’t compute, you’re brain dead!!!!
Apple, you should consider moving to the RTP (Research Triangle Park.)
Plenty of skilled people, affordable, and very close to your data center.
I say, hello Valley of the Sun!
Btw. ever wonder whether Jobs was without merits on his thoughts why Apple can’t move it’s manufacturing and other operations back in the States? Well, dismiss him all you want (heck his official biographer has done it), just don’t bet against him with real money.
The floor is open: any further questions about why things are done in China?
+100
I see this every day. City and county officials who are usually no ones that may or may not have a real job causing issues like this and more. The businesses try to come in, the councils members basically blackmailing them for their own agenda (not the city or county), so they can get development rights and permits before it’s approved. Looks aweful close to that, an Developer is against it with an old Judge? Really, sounds like the developer doesn’t have the land rights next to it or wants it delayed until he secures it. The Judge is looking to invest and is probably backing the developer.
Almost all the city and county council members in our area are low lifes, no jobs, living off the system, druggy’s. They are the only ones that want the council jobs and have the time because the don’t work. Don’t believe me about the druggy part, a couple of them just got busted for saling pot and pilss to an undercover agents. This was also the worst council member and also the longest seated member because he had dirt on everyone and he had all the liberal vote, even after he was busted. Go figure.
You want change people? Get good business people on the councils like their use to be. Those who were there to help the citys and counties grow by bringing in jobs and creating a sense of community.
This really comes down to whether Austin should allow millions in tax breaks for a multi-billion dollar company to come to Austin. Austin is a great place with a large population of highly-trained techs and engineers. From all available information it appears that Apple should move to Austin regardless of millions of dollars in tax breaks. The people who live in Austin sure don’t think we need to give tax breaks/incentives to bring any company to Austin. If Apple decides to not expand into the Austin area, no one in Austin is really going to be affected and no one will feel like we’ve screwed the future of Austin. It’s a business decision for Apple and it’s a business decision for Austin. Basically, those of us that live in Austin feel that Austin sells itself and we don’t need to provide tax breaks to any company. Texas is a great place to do business. Austin is the high-tech hub in Texas.
“The people who live in Austin sure don’t think we need to give tax breaks/incentives to bring any company to Austin.”
That’s funny, because the Austin city council has already unanimously approved $8.6 million dollars in incentives for Apple Inc.
Unanimously.
Luckily for Austin, idiots like you are not making important decisions.
It’s Travis County that balked and it’s Travis County that will soon grant significant tax incentives to Apple Inc. if they have any brains at all.
For being a Republican (based on your icon) you sure don’t sound like one. You bomb throw your comments so you also don’t sound like a good person. The Republican Party here in Austin is highly against this deal. The City Counsel is heavily left leaning and aren’t elected by districts. (This will change in November when we pass the 10-1 Districting motion. The make-up of the City Counsel will change dramatically). Travis County can reject the deal completely. While this city is filled with UT professors, but it’s also filled with a significant number of high-tech companies. Dell is just one of them. From your comments you aren’t a Republican, and are highly ignorant of the makeup of Austin. While I agree Travis County will most likely follow through with the deal, it’s simply absurd to state what you’ve state about Austin not being full of intelligent people. Your Republican icon is obviously a ruse. Since you are also a bomb thrower in your statements, you obviously have issues with acceptance of your own level of failure.
“this city is filled with UT professors”, meaning = this city is filled with UT professors-commies!
Dell, you use Dell as an example. Look at their horrific track record spewing out garbage.
You Lib-Tards are pathetic and completely brain dead. It is a complete waste of time trying explain anything to you fools. You can’t absorb reality. You are truly Lemmings!
Go to hell, austin-idiot!
Grade-school level hysteria aside:
Actually, Dell headquarters is not in Travis County. It is just north of Austin in Round Rock, Williamson County.
Round Rock offered massive tax incentives for them to locate there, which, if you measure success by population growth and tax revenue growth, was an extremely successful strategy.
-W.T. (former Round Rock resident, but NOT Dell employee)
No reality WT-Lemming!
No reality?
I’m sorry to hear that. Good luck finding some.
You sure won’t WT-Communist-JACK-ASS!!!!!
WT-Idiot lives in his nightmare-Fantasy-world of Social-Marxism!! Sad and Pathetic.
Local incentives for business to move new facilities, tax payments, and jobs to specific localities is nothing new. Just as local communities fight movement of non-desirable movements. The practice has been going on for thousands of years around the world. The economics and politics are settled and there are many consultants and experts in the business. The object is a short and long term, win-win deal to benefit both sides.
It’s all part of business-friendly practices as opposed to anti-business practices. Whatever you subsidize, you generally get more of.
I guess they expect to be paid off by Apple to get approval. The US is just as corrupt as Mexico.
Could be, Chicago south?
This is just part of the PR blitz each side puts up to try to get its “best deal”.
Time to move on.
Just an example of Texas’ “pro-business” environment. If Apple had gun racks in the windows of its stores, everything would be just fine.
So is that a 30.0.6 in yer winder or a .270?
Winchester 30-30
“A gun rack… a gun rack. I don’t even own *a* gun, let alone many guns that would necessitate an entire rack. What am I gonna do with a gun rack?”
They could move their business up to Marshall.
Oh wait, they’ve already got too much business in Marshall….
Why should taxpayers subsidise the largest most profitable company in the world? How dare Apple even ask. The amount of money being discussed is so small it won’t even shoe up on Apples bottom line. However it could go a long way towards improving local schools and roads. Maybe instead of cash Apple could pay in stock contributed to what I would bet is an underfunded retirement fund in that county!
Because
A) This govt. investment actually has a return
2) Those kids need a job when they get out of school…
Austin would not only be saying no to the 3,600 jobs now, but to any future growth too.
It might be worth thinking whether Apple is the sort of company that might expand more in the future.
Wherever Apple places this particular operation, I think that there’s a very high probability that more jobs will follow. If I lived in Austin, I would be very concerned that an employer of this magnitude is being made to feel frustrated in its dealings with Austin.
Apple should be doing it’s business in the USA instead of China and elsewhere!!!
Just not in our back yard!!!
Sounds like the hypocrites that vilify carbon fuels, and demand more wind power, but not anywhere they can see the windmills from their house.
“are up in the air because of the county’s continuing deliberations and calls for new conditions on its incentives deal with the company,” Ladendorf and Mashhood report. “‘This deal is not done. It remains in peril. And Apple is frustrated,’ Porter said.”
It means that some politician is not getting their palm greased and will hold things up until they do.
Apple should move their call center to that Eastern District of Texas where all those patent lawsuits take place. All the juries would be positively tainted, and thus those lawsuits would move to fairer jurisdictions, giving Apple an even playing field against the trolls.
I like your strategy, I like it a lot !
That would be Marshall.
(out of the Tyler district I believe)
From a conservative AND one living in Austin, here is what is happening . .
Austin politicians and the majority electorate want to remain liberal, period. End of story.
This is not where Dell is. Dell is in Williamson County just north of Austin. Williamson county competed for Dell following the frustration Dell had with the city, and thus caused Williamson County to become the top growth county in the Country. Do they do business in Austin? Sure, but you’ll find the main campuss in Round Rock, TX, resulting where the majority live and thrive.
I’m am no Dell fan by any means, but illustrating that when you see neighborhoods, apartment communities maxed with Dell employees, one could safely say the tax revenue goes beyond direct taxation of the company itself.
If you ask yourself “why” since this is such common sense, the answer is simple. Liberals want to remain in a liberal environment. Money, and opportunity have nothing to do with it. Conservative are always thumped by asking the question, why. Just understand that although they complain about “jobs”, it’s simply a voting base tactic, and envy and victimization is nothing you go and by a book to learn about.
If your a liberal reading this, there is no reason to be bothered or frazzled with these truths. Just call it what it is. According to the last demographic study, 20% of this country actually believes the same thing you do. In Austin, the opposite may be true, but as for Williamson County it continues to grow beyond Dell, and one could possibly say it may have helped transform a political base. Liberals understand what the fusion of Capitalism can do, and so do Conservatives.
Be that as it may, Austin is changing and most are hopeful things work out as the tech talent is here, and Apple and the City would mutually benefit from each other.
a companu with 100 billion in the bank needs incentives? Talk about socialism.
a company with 100 billion in the bank needs incentives? Talk about socialism.
It’s an investment dumb ass! If you ever were successful in business you would understand. Your nano-Lemming-brain just can’t wrap itself a good old fashioned, Capitalist, American idea. Sad, really, really sad! Go back to vegatating in front of your sitcom, moron!!!!!
Seriously, all you people need a good flood to wipe yourselves away. No one is interested in compromise anymore. No one is interested in what the other side, ANY side has to say. It’s all about themselves. The absolute height of narcissism (look it up).
God sent a flood for you people once, and I hope he does it again.
If that kind of idiocy wasn’t fixed by the first flood, why would another flood fix it?
You two are both supreme idiots. Go screw yourselves. Conservatives are not selfish because the demand that people take responsibility for themselves. You Effing morons can are absolute parasite-scum.
Why on earth would anyone ever compromise with a LEMMING-TURD-LIB-TARD???? That’s like accepting all out defeat. Maybe if you’re French you do something like that but not a TRUE AMERICAN.
WT-Idiot, your comrade Maobamanidagene and Nazis are going to lose in a landslide this November. Stuff that where the sun don’t shine, ahole!
Dude, if you must know, I make six figures doing software engineering for an investment firm. I didn’t vote for Obama. Dang.
Seek professional help.
You voted for Maobama you troll, save it. Six figures is chump change. Use your brains and take it up to the next level dick weed. Or do you still have white guilt??
I have lived in Texas and I really like conservative Texans but if you aren’t conservative the only thing left is Queers and Steers or vice versa. I don’t see no horns coming out of your avatar!
Once again, seek help.
You first shit head! Liberalism has been proven to be a psychiatric disorder. An extremely serious one at that.