QED.

-jcr

Unfortunately, like the “Lament of Chief Seattle”, if an idea has the appropriate ingredients to catch the public’s imagination (or the news media’s), it doesn’t matter if the underlying data are flawed, or the story is exposed as a complete fake, it will stick.

Greenpeace is actually hounding a Japanese whaling fleet in the Antarctic, currently.

Environmentalism is not just politics. It is science, but unfortunately what was obvious is 1975 had to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt before greedy business types would even talk about the issues.

The way a person drives has a lot to do with gas consumption in any type of vehicle.

I am glad to hear Steve Jobs is not as much of an idoit as the author of this MDN writer.

But I find it hard to believe that you guys are so desperate for ammo as to drag out that tired and long-discredited Hummer/Prious comparison like it was anything more than right wing propaganda.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inco_Superstack

Sad, beneath you and ironically exactly the same tactic you purport to be criticizing Greenpeace for using against Apple.

Completely unnecessary and I doubt when you look back on this a few months from now, you’ll be happy with either the tone of the article or the tone of the comments which are hardly representative of the average mac user.

I know you meant it as a joke, but it wouldn’t be seen as that funny down here. A guy was killed when that bomb went off. The French then blackmailed us into handing two of the murderers over (the dead man’s daughter still deeply resents that), and totally screwed us when we did.

Although somewhat overstated <irony>, I broadly agree with MDN’s takes. Greenpeace’s use of Apple is morally dubious.

They make too much money and profit. They think they are the regulators of all things green. They have become fat and slow… and because they have been around for sometime they appear to the average person as the definitive voice on these matter.

This needs to be challenged.

I was happy and surprised with Steve’s mention of environmental concerns regarding manufacturing materials. I like glossy screens more because of this. And Apple has taken a good step forward to realizing change to their products.

Only Because Al Gore is recognized Apples Board – has Greenpeace bothered to Knock on Apples Door.

but this doesn’t look so dramatic, so the old, bad, pre-1994 state was used

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inco_Superstack

2. “climate change” when used in place of “global warming” is simply Orwell grade misrepresentation.

It is getting hotter, and we need to get off our asses.

3. The quick, take home version of global warming: The 10 hottest years in recorded history have all occured in the last 14 years.

think about it: all the carbon that has accumulated over millions of years has suddenly been released since the industrial age through burning of wood, coal, oil, natural gas ends up in a greenhouse gas, carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Obviously this is going to make the planet warmer, and the warming effect is accelerating.

All 3 of the major ice reserves on the planet – the Arctic, Greenland, Antarctica are showing major melting, and they’re warming faster than anyplace else. The Arctic, in particular, is melting at an astonishing rate.

“Ohio Art. They provide Greenpeace with the finest and safest laptops.”

Safest? Try breaking one of those babies open on your mother’s new white carpet!

Curiosity nearly killed this cat.

rotflmao! unlike, say, tax cuts for the wealthy? lol!

“The woefully bad science of so called “global warming” was so bad that they changed the name to “climate change.”"

i am so tired of hearing how bad the “science” is from people who don’t understand even the basics of newtonian physics let alone climate models, molecular reactions, chaos projections and on and on and on…..

please, do enlighten us all with your much better science, k?

as long as we are talking about political philosophies in general, science denies, like most conservative philosophies, is all about shoving your head in the sand (or up your ass, which ever is handier) and yelling “lalala” as loud as you can and pretending the problem will go away.

“That way even if they can’t prove the globe is getting warmer “

see, if you have hundreds of years of data, and the data all slopes to warmer, you HAVE proven it. it has been shown. repeatedly. see earlier comment about head shoving and ignoring….

“by claiming that their local sea level has risen 1 quarter of 1 percent of 1 centimeter in the last 25 years.”

again, entire low lying islands have disappeared. this isn’t a claim. if the island is there and people live on it for generations and then over a few years the sea rises around it, this isn’t a claim, this is an observable fact.

how do we know we are screwed? when you can show people simple observable facts and they deny reality, you are screwed.

…you know, like the windows users who deny the virus disparity between platforms. if you can deny reality, everything is easy!

so why is it that you can see flawed logic on the part of windows users, but not your own?

“When the freaks start talking about saving tree frogs, you have to do the same thing you do with every other irrational malcontent.”

so, when the freaks start denying reality in the climate, you have to do the same thing you do with every other irrational malcontent. follow the money.

how much did the right wing nut jobs in america get from oil companies?

our oilman in chief have any money there?

his buddies in the mideast have any money?

his VP and oilman know anybody?

his friend Condi with the oil tanker named after her?

nah, the real money is in the hands of those liberal commies isn’t it? not the record breaking oil companies and their $100 a barrel crack they have america hooked on.

yeah, you are too smart for us, guess we will take our big money liberal politics and go home!

While I agree with the overall goals of Greenpeace, their tactics leave a lot to be desired. Agree with Mr Reeee regarding the respectability of other deserving organizations such as The Nature Conservancy.

Peace.

Follow the money.

“Green” is big money. Like most Liberal political philosophies, “Green” is all about the transference of wealth.

The woefully bad science of so called “global warming” was so bad that they changed the name to “climate change.” That way even if they can’t prove the globe is getting warmer they can argue that the “climate is changing” because of ghg.

Bah.

And it isn’t about melting polar ice caps either. It’s about allowing 2 bit banana republics to sue the United States by claiming that their local sea level has risen 1 quarter of 1 percent of 1 centimeter in the last 25 years.

If they just said it’s probably not a good idea to dump so much garbage into the atmosphere if we don’t have to, I’d have far more respect for them, even be inclined to agree. But again, this isn’t about the environment. It’s about “Green.” Good old American Greenbacks that is.

I drive mostly on the freeway.

I get 47-50 MPG consistently.

This “hybrids don’t work on the freeway” stuff is bulls**t. It all has to do with how efficient the gasoline engine is. The Prius’ gas engine is extremely efficient. It also has to do with how much effort you’re willing to put into driving smarter, instead of just stomping on the accelerator every time you want to go faster.

——RM

Greenpeace’s shrill, over-the-top, cries are falling on more and more deaf ears, because people don’t want to hear their crap anymore. My household has a hybrid (MDN’s flawed research regarding Hummers notwithstanding), we recycle everything we can, are switching out light bulbs to compact fluorescent, etc, etc, etc. But we don’t contribute to Greenpeace because of their tactics. Instead, we give to the Sierra Club and other groups who actually do something besides send out press releases and crash boats into coral reefs.

but the whole prius worse than a hummer things has been debunked already. more than once.

even the dorks at slashdot debunked that.

seriously, please don’t post stuff that makes you look stupid….

the hybrid and hummer numbers used for that article are pulled out of thin air. the research on the article (if you look deep enough) states that the reason is because a prius will last 109,000 miles, and a hummer more than 600,000 miles. yes, if you have to buy 6 prius’ to get the same usage as a hummer, the prius is 50% worse.

Gizmodan: “Personally, I am a conservative, and feel that most environmentalists are such due to a lack of other religion, “

then how do you explain that the fastest growing group of environmentalists are self proclaimed “christian environmentalists.”

i guess christianity isn’t a belief?

I sincerely think they lay off of the other companies by way of payoffs, but I could be wrong. Discuss?

What Greepeace is doing is indeed a very bad thing. I remember listening to a speech by some of the founders of Greenpeace at their very first “Save the Whales” concert in 1974 and it was inspiring to say the least. It was a good organisation filled with honest people who wanted to change the world.

Now, I wouldn’t give them a dime and they are using dishonesty and deception to do a “PR number” on the public. Manipulation and lies will not only not get you very far, they work against you. For years there have been narrow minded jerks like the guy above using the “Greenpiss” moniker to shut them down and this just plays into that.

The same demographic that would support the things Greenpeace stands for are buying Apple computers. What Greenpeace is doing with this campaign is alienating all those people. The net effect of this kind of dishonesty is the same as if Ghandi took bribes, or Jesus appeared on a cola advertisement. One of the only things Greenpeace had going for it was the moral high-ground, but they have completely lost it now.

This campaign destroys everything that Greenpeace followers have worked for all those years. It might work in the short term but it will destroy them. This kind of stuff always does.

No, that would be PETA.

(pet issues, get it?)

Kim- you’re a fake poster, right?
Who are you, really?

Disgusting. Truly disgusting.

Also, everyone should know that Greenpeace fundraisers get a commission on the donations they round up on your doorstep etc.

So, according to green peace, who is the “eco-leader”? Dell, HP, Microsoft?

So the winner is Apple, simply for taking greenpeace’s unfair criticism seriously. I think Steve is very aware of this, while at the same time he must be wishing GP would get off Apple’s back…

In this case they are right to do so. Greepeace has all but admitted they are using Apple for PR. Mostly all they are doing is pointing that out.

Apple could, should (and likely has started to) pressure their suppliers to do the same things with their electronics as they are doing with their own designs. Until then, Greenpeace’s point remains valid… there is something bad in the device that does not need to be there, and thus should be eliminated… The publicity will help push it in that direction, and that is exactly what Greenpeace is trying to do. If it annoys Jobs, oh well…

So what? It’s not like Greenpeace is calling for a boycott of Apple products, and even if they did, outside of a VERY small minority, only Greenpeace activists would actually try to do so, but I doubt it would work, since every Greenpeace activist I have ever met had a Mac. I bet 90% or more of Greenpeace activists are loyal Apple customers.

HP, Dell, etc. whilst bigger, are clearly perceived as just mass producers… The McDonalds to Apple’s Red Robin (Google “Red Robin” if you don’t know what that is – don’t be a moronic putz and ask what you can find out for yourself!). Apple is considered a trend setter, and innovator, a forward thinker, so Greenpeace logically rides their coattails, as MDN fairly accurately characterizes it. If they tried the same with HP or Dell, it’s likely to elicit a “no shit sherlock” kind of response.

Anyhow, let’s remember what Hollywood has known well for decades… there is no such thing as bad publicity. It sure doesn’t seem to be negatively affecting the sales of Macs.

Ohio Art. They provide Greenpeace with the finest and safest laptops.

I also got caught up in Dumbass Carter’s solar energy scam. Cost me a 1/4 million $ in back taxes, interest (16 to 18%) and penalties. My fault.

How does that work? I thought a tax credit was a direct subtraction off of the taxes you would owe. How did you end up owing more?

Agree with you on the whole greenpeace thing, but don’t pull stuff out of your ass regarding the Hybrid vs Hummer thing. That was a very flawed study as a quick google search will reveal.

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/03/20/1858204&from=rss

http://www.pacinst.org/topics/integrity_of_science/case_studies/hummer_vs_prius.pdf (PDF)

and many more.

Personally, I am a conservative, and feel that most environmentalists are such due to a lack of other religion, therefore they worship the earth. Gotta believe in something! I drive an xB, but only because I’m cheap.

I used to give money to Greenpeace, but now donate to organizations like The Nature Conservancy, NRDC, Transportation Alternatives, ZPG…

Hybrids aren’t always the most efficient choice of vehicle. it depends on the type of driving one does. For highway driving, they’re the pits, but for errands and short hops they’re excellent.

Me? I’ll stick with my bicycles.

There’s nothing DUMMER than a HUMMER.

It’s because everyone already knows the people in IT are methane spewing gas bags.
There’s no reason to delve further into their environments.

Riding the coattails: I think that means to be helped, or carried along by.