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Apple TV: iFlop?

Friday, September 14, 2007 · 4:24 pm · 158 Comments

“Jobs’ own ambivalence about the iFlop, however, is evident. At a tech conference in May Jobs took the stage and casually dismissed Apple TV as merely ‘a hobby.’ In briefing Wall Street on quarterly earnings on July 25, Apple execs ignored the video product,” Woolley writes.

Woolley asks, “How did the storied Steve Jobs and Apple botch it so badly?”

As “Apple TV headed to stores on Mar. 21, Jobs faced an ugly reality: The new box would debut with content from only two of the Big Six,” Woolley reports. “Many newcomers, far less threatening than Apple, have had better luck luring the studios online. A startup named Vudu in Santa Clara, Calif. has deals with all six Hollywood heavyweights and a score of international distributors, in part because it doesn’t try to dictate wholesale prices. (A download of Syriana from Warner Bros. goes for $20.) The studios also let Vudu users rent movies for 24 hours, not an option on Apple TV.”

“Apple struggled over the design of the box itself. Revered for sleek and snazzy products, the company and its man-in-black patriarch made a string of dubious choices about what features to include. And what to leave out. Apple TV comes with a hard drive and a link to the TV set, same as TiVo (now in 4.3 million homes). Yet Jobs decided against offering the ability to record shows,” Woolley reports.

“Other Web TV boxes coming to the market have added far more features. TiVo’s latest box allows not only ad-skipping but now lets a user click a remote to download movies and TV shows from the Internet without leaving the couch; TiVo owners used to have to get up to go to the computer to get a movie for the TV. Since adding this ability in July, movie downloads shot up 50% in a month,” Woolley reports.

Full article here.

[Thanks to MacDailyNews Reader "Patrice" for the heads up.]

While it may be argued that recording/time shifting was never what Apple TV was about – after all, it’s meant to be a wireless link from iTunes to your TV – there are a few things that can be done besides adding DVR capability that would help sales:

• Let iTunes rip DVDs as it can rip CDs for music.
• Let Apple TV users buy TV shows, movies, videos, and music content directly from the iTunes Store; eliminate the need for the computer (Just like the new iPod touch and iPhone can now do with music). Having the computer stuck in the middle of the process is a needless PITA – no matter what kind of computer you use.
• Get the networks and studios to sell more content.
• Offer a monthly subscription plan a la (gulp) cable that lets users watch some amount of programming per month (iTunes Store’s current Season passes sort of accomplish this for individual shows (too expensive for mass appeal, though), but how about subscribing to a network for a monthly rate or maybe selling an hour or blocks of content (ex. 10 hours or even 10 episodes (up to an hour each) or 10 movies per month at reasonable prices)? Unlike music, people tend to watch TV shows and movies once, there is no need to “own” (and have to store) such content (beyond the few special movies people might want to own to watch multiple times).
• Stream live events (including, but not limited to CEO Steve Jobs’ keynotes and special events presentations)
• Upping iTunes Store content to HD (somehow overcoming the time-to-download factor)

Apple TV is good for watching a TV show episode that your DVR missed (which happens fairly often with the various crap DVRs offered by cable providers), watching P2P content of a serialized TV show that some network pulled midseason without notice (cough, Daybreak, cough), showing photos to family and friends, listening to music (if you have it hooked up to some decent speakers), audio and video podcasts, checking out movie trailers, and watching YouTube vids, but it could be so much more.

There’s nothing wrong with Apple TV that software updates and open-minded content providers couldn’t fix.

There are other ideas people have bandied about that range all over the place: from that always-mentioned DVR capability to offering porn (both of which may have the equal chance of never happening). Of course, Apple TV’s big road block remains the content providers, not Apple. We believe that Apple is severely constrained due to content use restrictions and unrealistic pricing demands by TV networks and movie studios.

Let us know if you have other ideas below.

Related articles:
Apple could sell more Apple TVs if they streamed Steve Jobs’ keynotes live – September 05, 2007
Miglia’s VideoExpress offers hardware video converter for Apple TV, iPhone, iPod – August 03, 2007
Repositioning Apple TV: sell it as ‘photo station’ – June 08, 2007
Fortune’s Brent Schlender on Apple TV: Dud or FUD? – June 02, 2007
BusinessWeek: Steve Jobs’ Apple TV ‘hobby’ boosted with improvements, much more to come – June 01, 2007
Deutsche Bank: Apple TV will cannibalize a good chunk of DVD market – June 01, 2007
Apple TV external USB hard drive support enabled via third-party patch – July 30, 2007
AT&T planning IPTV for Apple TV in 2008? – May 31, 2007
Viacom welcomes licensing opportunity for Apple TV – May 31, 2007
Analysts now see Apple TV as catalyst for the company – May 31, 2007
Apple debuts Apple TV with 160GB hard drive, YouTube integration coming mid-June – May 30, 2007
DVDxDV Pro introduces direct export from DVD to Apple TV, iPod, iPhone – May 23, 2007
Elgato releases Turbo.264: USB Stick accelerates iPod and Apple TV exports – May 16, 2007
How Apple’s iTunes Store could deliver High Definition for Apple TV – May 01, 2007
Apple reinvents consumer electronics; iPhone and Apple TV to get better over time with free updates – April 26, 2007
Apple to continually develop new software features for Apple TV, iPhone; offer free updates – April 26, 2007
Houston Chronicle: Apple TV ‘a delightful addition to HDTV setup’ – April 26, 2007
Elgato releases EyeTV 2.4 with Apple TV support – April 18, 2007
Pocket-lint reviews Apple TV: 8 out of 10, iPod for your living room very easy to use, desirable – April 18, 2007
Analyst: iPod sales may hit 500 million, Apple TV emerging as ‘a sleeper hit’ – April 11, 2007
The dam begins to break: MGM films now on iTunes Store; Apple announces over 2 million movies sold – April 11, 2007
Automating BitTorrent downloads on Apple’s Mac OS X is easy – April 10, 2007
Apple TV soon to work with Slingbox, stream iTunes library to mobile devices like iPhone? – April 10, 2007
washingtonpost.com launches high-definition video podcasts via Apple iTunes for Apple TV – April 10, 2007
Laptop Mag reviews Apple TV: ‘The best digital media adapter yet,’ 4.5 out of 5 stars – April 06, 2007
RUMOR: Apple TV team prepping update with new ‘Net-centric features – April 05, 2007
Digit hands-on with Apple TV: ‘simple to set up, a delight to use’ – March 29, 2007
Newsweek: Apple TV has a lot going for it – March 29, 2007
Hacking Apple TV: Joost successfully run on Apple TV – March 28, 2007
Apple TV software hints at future DVR functions? – March 28, 2007
Ten Apple TV myths – March 28, 2007
Ars Technica in-depth review: Apple TV ‘impressed all those who touched it’ – March 27, 2007
Analyst: Apple TV is a platform, not a single product – March 27, 2007
Digital Trends reviews Apple TV: 7 out of 10, ‘huge phenomenon will challenge conventional thinking’ – March 26, 2007
iLounge gives Apple TV a ‘B’ in hands-on review: ‘recommended’ – March 24, 2007
CNET reviews Apple TV: ‘Very Good’ – 7.7 out of 10 – March 24, 2007
Analyst: Apple TV will change the TV business – March 23, 2007
Xvid fully functional on Apple TV – March 23, 2007
Apple TV does not require Widescreen TV or HDTV, works with standard TVs – March 23, 2007
Scoble: ‘Apple TV rocks’ – March 23, 2007
Apple TV hard drive upgrade works – March 23, 2007
PC Magazine review gives Apple TV 4 out of 5 stars – March 22, 2007
NY Times’ Pogue: ‘Apple TV offers a gracious, elegant, effortless, delightful experience’ – March 21, 2007
Mossberg hands-on with Apple TV: ‘beautiful design, easy-to-use, classic Apple: simple and elegant’ – March 21, 2007
Apple TV projected to surpass TiVo, Netflix – March 20, 2007
Apple TV ships – March 20, 2007

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158 Comments

1 2 3 … 7 Next »
  1. Eric

    Friday, September 14, 2007 - 4:29 pm · Reply

    AppleTV owner here. I love it. I just need to invest in that USB encoder thing to rip more of my Movies to AppleTV format….

  2. Zeke

    Friday, September 14, 2007 - 4:34 pm · Reply

    “(A download of Syriana from Warner Bros. goes for $20.)”

    LOL! You are joking, right? This startuop has a limited future with that kind of pricing for that quality movie. No wonder Apple isn’t doing business with Warner Bros..

  3. Synthmeister

    Friday, September 14, 2007 - 4:36 pm · Reply

    The studios and networks are the problem on the content end of things. They just need a lot more content on iTunes to make this thing work. Then the lack of DVR capability becomes much less of an issue.
    The cable companies are the problem on the DVR end of things.
    Is there even a standard way the Apple TV could interface with cable companies (CableCard slot?) to get high quality video into that thing—assuming the cable companies would even allow that?

  4. Dan

    Friday, September 14, 2007 - 4:37 pm · Reply

    Apple TV has been a great addition around here. Whether feeding our music system, watching movies, or letting the grandkids see an awesome family photo show, it’s done much more than we ever thought it could. I don’t regret the purchase for a minute. A niche product, for sure, but in a good space.

  5. FighterOfFreedom

    Friday, September 14, 2007 - 4:42 pm · Reply

    So apparently, now every Apple product that doesn’t sell as fast as the iPod and iPhone is a “flat-out flop”

    That’s the price of success I guess

  6. Algr

    Friday, September 14, 2007 - 4:42 pm · Reply

    AppleTV falls between pillars in strange ways. It suggests that you need an HD set to use it, yet it has no HD content. Also, TV from the Apple store is too expensive to replace casual viewing. So the studio’s brilliant solution of making things even more expensive is doomed. I think they just want this category to fail so they can keep the existing broadcast model in place.

  7. bwilson

    Friday, September 14, 2007 - 4:43 pm · Reply

    have both the 40GB and 160GB models. Love the product and it has huge potential. Don’t care so much about buying music from the tv, but would love to see HD content available from the ITMS besides just a few Podcasts. Sux that the movie trailers stream from the tv at standard def too… wish that was also HD.

    And why doesn’t Apple take advantage of their own technology? Example, using the device to stream their various events. Just seams like even Apple doesn’t care for it much so why would other content providers?

    I look forward to the future of this product. The current model is a step in the right direction.

  8. Jon

    Friday, September 14, 2007 - 4:44 pm · Reply

    I think I’m gonna go buy one – just because I don’t like Woolley’s negative and superior attitude. Like he’s got all the answers…

  9. dwoodruff

    Friday, September 14, 2007 - 4:45 pm · Reply

    you are wrong in the worst way…

  10. luv mine

    Friday, September 14, 2007 - 4:51 pm · Reply

    I use it for one thing, ok 2 things, and 2 things only. It serves as my music hub as I have a kick ass sound system, and for watching the ocassional vid podcast. Thats it, thats what I bought it for, and I love it.

  11. Falkirk

    Friday, September 14, 2007 - 4:52 pm · Reply

    I own an Apple TV and I’m happy with it. But it’s all about content. TV shows need to be cheaper and more importantly movie rentals need to become available.

    I don’t think people understand the Apple TV paradigm. Apple doesn’t want to be ties to cable, satellite, whatever so they’ll never offer DVR. They want Apple TV to be iTunes on your TV. The key now is to get more content on iTunes.

  12. Jings

    Friday, September 14, 2007 - 4:55 pm · Reply

    We LOVE our Apple TV. If flat out Rocks.

  13. Thundar

    Friday, September 14, 2007 - 4:56 pm · Reply

    Honestly people, think it out for once. The AppleTV is a device created to allow iTunes to broaden it’s market. Since iTunes sales of TV shows and movies has been steadily increasing, the average user will eventually want a way to play their media the way they want to.

    In other words, AppleTV doesn’t have to be a success right now, all it has to do is be ready to catch the market when it turns in it’s favor.

  14. Allan

    Friday, September 14, 2007 - 4:56 pm · Reply

    I am happy with my AppleTV – just wish I could download TV rentals directly from the sofa.

  15. @Jon

    Friday, September 14, 2007 - 4:57 pm · Reply

    I am in on that motion too. Bully-for-Woolley!

    Plus, I like the device.
    Some of the DVR’s out there have poor encoding quality.
    They are a wonderful idea. I would add that to the AppleTV wishlist. BUT, as a consumer. I knew what it did. Due to the machine I had at the introductory of this item… it was not for me.
    Now – since CUTTING cable tv… I prefer buying what I want to see… DVD or iTunes.

    THIS is the future. Apple TV is not a FLOP… it just isn’t in the CULTURE yet.

  16. DogGone

    Friday, September 14, 2007 - 4:57 pm · Reply

    When Jobs says hobby he means the product is evolving. Just like the Hifi thingy, they are testing whether the market is good.

    The AppleTV still has a lot of room to grow. The content distributors still are wary of Apple. Like the music gurus they want have their cake and eat it.

    2 years down the road, OS X and the hardware will be so powerful that any content will be able to run on whatever Apple choose to develop.

  17. ken1w

    Friday, September 14, 2007 - 4:58 pm · Reply

    Apple TV is meant to be a device that turns an HDTV into a giant iPod for the living room. I don’t have an HDTV yet, but when I get one, I’ll probably get an Apple TV too. The onboard software should be updated to mirror the iPod-related capabilities of the iPhone and iPod touch.

  18. Macromancer

    Friday, September 14, 2007 - 5:00 pm · Reply

    “”The ballyhooed box has sold perhaps 250,000 units–far behind the 1 million sold for the iPhone, which was priced twice as high and has been on the market less than half as long.”

    Does anyone else see the failed logic behind this statement?
    The AppleTV is probably ultimately going to be one of the biggest products Apple has.

  19. Todd

    Friday, September 14, 2007 - 5:00 pm · Reply

    http://metrophoenix.com/nobox/

  20. mtngoatjoe

    Friday, September 14, 2007 - 5:02 pm · Reply

    I love my AppleTV! I have 11,000 photos on my Mac, and this is the best way to get them on the screen. It works great with movies taken with our digital cameras, but there are some shortfalls:

    1) Event Grouping: For any given event, I might have photos and videos, but iTunes forces me to break up my content into those categories. I want to create my own categories and add whatever content I want to them.

    2) iTunes make home videos a royal pain! I have to have separate versions for my iPhone and Apple TV. What the hell for?!?!?! I haven’t even tried to figure out what I’m going to do with a .Mac web gallery!

    3) The audio off my Sony digital camera uses a format that doesn’t jive well with apple products. It has something to do with muxed MPEGs, but I’m not quite sure. What I am sure of, is that converting the muxed MPEG audio to something usable on my iPhone isn’t possible with QuickTime Pro!

    4) Let my play DVD images on my AppleTV. I’ve got a lot of old DVDs that have photos and videos that would be a real pain to transfer over to iTunes. And really, why should I have to? Apple may have abandoned the DVD format, but it’s still alive and well in my world!

    I love my AppleTV, but a few things need to get fixed! Every time someone new sees my photos on my TV, they want an AppleTV. They’re just put off by the $300 and the belief that doing anything useful with their Windoze boxes will cost them more hours than they have in a standard lifetime!

  21. Macromancer

    Friday, September 14, 2007 - 5:08 pm · Reply

    “• Let iTunes rip DVDs as it can rip CDs for music.”

    This will never happen as long as the DMCA is in effect. Circumventing copyright protections is illegal under this bogus law.
    I would be willing to allow them to add DRM to it though if it were somehow made legal.

  22. Bill

    Friday, September 14, 2007 - 5:09 pm · Reply

    Apple TV owner here. I think it’s a fantastic product that is limited by content owners and bandwidth.

    - I’d subscribe to more shows if more meeting my interest were available.
    - I’d surely purchase HD films if it were available at a reasonable price. Would negate the HD DVD / Blu-Ray wars for owners.

    I use it equally for music and video now. Apple TV, a DVD player and Xbox 360 fill in as a replacement for cable. I’d rather spend my money watching what I want when I want rather than having 500 channels of some good content mixed in with a lot of crap. It’s also refreshing to get away from news these days since it’s either focused on keeping us scared, slanderous politics or hollywood tabloid b.s..

    What could make it better besides more content and possibly HD content? How about these:

    - Visualizer like the one in iTunes
    - iTunes store (hopefully coming soon with new mobile store rollout)
    - Apple event, product overviews & tutorial videos

    my $.02

  23. against forbes

    Friday, September 14, 2007 - 5:10 pm · Reply

    im a apple tv and ipod hi-fi owner,this thing they write is nonsense,forbes didn´t test the product,and review it,so…the should try before talking about it.

  24. BAC

    Friday, September 14, 2007 - 5:11 pm · Reply

    I will buy one when the following features are added.
    1. A DVD or DVD-HD slot is added or they allow me to rip DVDs with my iMac.
    2. They upgrade the content to full HD.
    3. Allow users to buy and download content using the Apple TV.

    Basicly I want my media anywhere I go. Via iPod, Apple TV, iPhone, PC(work), and Mac(home). And I wnat to be able to get new content on the fly.

    I have all the above except the iPhone and AppleTV. 2 Macs, 3 iPods, 1 PC, and a pear tree.

    I’ll get an iPhone as soon as you can buy one from Verizon.

  25. Brau

    Friday, September 14, 2007 - 5:12 pm · Reply

    I have to agree with Forbes. The TV offers only one feature I want – the ability to send my EyeTV DVR recordings to my TV – and nothing else. Hard to justify the expense for just one useful feature. I won’t rent sub-quality videos from iTunes, while iPhoto and Youtube are worthless gimmicks (Hey kids, want to watch a family slideshow!). Unless Leopard adds something substantial to the TV’s feature list, it will never sell well.

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