“Apple has rolled out a slick new 17-inch version of its MacBook Pro, the Intel-powered replacement for the Powerbook. It’s cool, lovely and fast (up to four times faster than the old one) and can run Windows thanks to Boot Camp software. The downside? Price. Expect to fork over $2,800 for one with a gig of RAM. I love Apple hardware but that price makes me think more than twice when you can get a couple of decent Dells and change back for the same coin,” James Derk () writes for for Scripps Howard News Service. “At $1,999 the thing is worth a look; at $1,599 it’s a category killer. It just needs to get a thousand bucks cheaper somehow. Does Moore’s Law apply to Apples?”
[James Derk is co-owner of CyberDads, a computer repair firm, and computer columnist for Scripps Howard News Service.]
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: Well, now. We hereby publicly challenge Mr. Derk to find a Dell laptop that meets the following specifications that costs less than half the price of Apple’s new 17-inch MacBook Pro. And look up “Moore’s Law” while you’re at it.
Apple 17-inch MacBook Pro specs for US$2,799 configuration:
• 2.16GHz Intel Core Duo
• 1GB (single SODIMM) of PC2-5300 (667MHz) DDR2 memory
• 667MHz frontside bus
• OS: Mac OS X
• 120GB 5400-rpm Serial ATA hard drive or 100GB 7200-rpm drive
• One FireWire 400
• One FireWire 800
• Three USB 2.0 ports
• 17-inch display
• 6.8 pounds
• 1.0 inch thin
• 8x SuperDrive (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
• ExpressCard/34 slot
• Built-in 54-Mbps AirPort Extreme wireless networking (802.11g standard)
• Built-in Bluetooth 2.0+EDR (Enhanced Data Rate)
• Built-in 10/100/1000BASE-T Gigabit Ethernet
• ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 graphics processor, dual link DVI support, 256MB of GDDR3
• DVI output port
• Built-in iSight camera
• MagSafe Power Adapter port
• Apple Remote
Now, of course, the Dell is hobbled from the outset as it is OS-limited and cannot run the world’s most advanced operating system, Mac OS X. Apple’s MacBook Pro can run Mac OS X, Windows, Linux, and basically any other OS you care to run. So for our challenge, we’ll be extremely generous and pretend that major differentiator doesn’t exist. We’ll go even further and also pretend that the MacBook Pro’s included iLife ’06 and Front Row software are meaningless, too. So, can Mr. Derk or anybody find a Dell laptop that meets the following specifications that costs less than half the price of Apple’s new 17-inch MacBook Pro?
Oh, wait! Before you try it, Mr. Derk, we see your ruse. You wrote “you can get a couple of decent Dells and change back for the same coin,” so you allow yourself copious wiggle room to choose any two pieces of crap from Dell’s bargain bin, label them “decent,” and prance around CyberDads jingling your extra change? Hey, co-owners of computer repair firms wouldn’t like it too much if everyone’s computer just worked, now would they? What is the going rate for a Windows wipe and reinstall due to unrecoverable spyware/malware infestations these days, anyway? But, we digress.
So, back to the fun, two can play at that game. Our generosity, however, has now been rescinded. The ability to run Mac OS X and iLife, etc. plus Windows matters. It matters a lot. So, let’s first visit Dell’s website and find something that’s as close to Apple’s flagship MacBook Pro 17-inch as possible:
Dell XPS M1710 (catchy) specs:
• 2.16GHz Intel Core Duo
• 1GB (single SODIMM) of PC2-5300 (667MHz) DDR2 memory
• 667MHz frontside bus
• OS: Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005
• 100GB 7200rpm SATA Hard Drive
• One 4-pin IEEE 1394 (FireWire 400)
• Six USB 2.0 ports
• 17-inch display
• 8.8 pounds
• 1.67 inch thick
• 8X CD/DVD Burner (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
• Intel PRO/Wireless 3945 802.11a/g Mini Card (54Mbps)
• Dell Wireless 350 Bluetooth Internal (2.0 + Enhanced Data Rate)
• Integrated 10/100 Network Card and Modem
• 512MB NVIDIA GeForce Go 7900 GTX
• DVI output port
• Remote Control for Windows XP Media Center Edition
Total cost = US$4,008. (Not a typo, not Canadian dollars or Singapore Dollars; and for the world’s ugliest, heaviest, colored light glowing, OS-limited, bathroom-scale-looking POS, no less. By the way, it’s a good thing we’re fairly advanced Web surfers; navigating Dell’s bait and switch Web morass and actually getting a list of specs together to compare with Apple’s product is nearly impossible.)
Okay, so with the Dell, we get a screen with a bit higher res (Windows’ inferior UI needs the extra room), 3 more USB ports, a better video card, but no FireWire 800 port, no built-in camera, no MagSafe power port, and no built-in ambient light sensing keyboard and display. We do get (thankfully) Anti-Virus/Security Suite Pre-installed PC-cillin Internet Security: AntiVirus, Firewall, and 15-months of Spyware removal (sounds fun, see what you’re missing Macheads?), but no ability to run Mac OS X or any of the best-in-class Apple Mac-only apps like GarageBand, iMovie, iDVD, iWeb, iPhoto, etc. – plus the Dell is much thicker, two pounds heavier, and immeasurably uglier.
So, who’s getting ripped off here, exactly? Which company’s flagship portable laptop is really the better deal? The one that will win design awards around the world or the one that, when closed, people will mistakenly try to step on to see how much they weigh? To paraphrase Derk, the Dell just needs to get a $1,209 cheaper somehow, learn how to run Mac OS X, grow a FireWire 800 port, a built-in camera, gain a first-class industrial designer, and shed two pounds and nearly half its thickness before it would warrant even a cursory look.
By the way, you can get two 15.4-inch MacBook Pros and $10 change for the same coin as the $4,008 Dell XPS M1710.
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Related article:
Dude, you got a Dell? What are you, stupid? Only Apple Macs run both Mac OS X and Windows! – April 05, 2006
Toby,
Why does the mac need a 400 and a 800 port. Wouldn’t the 800 do both?
So I can connect my FW400 DV Camcorder and capture to my external FW800 500GB external HD (and keep the internal HD free of raw footage) of course!
Rory:
“…comparing an Inspiron to an XPS is like comparing an iBook to a MBP.”
The Dells I was referring to:
$2300 E1505 — 2.16Ghz Core Duo, 667Mhz RAM, 5400 120GB HD, bluetooth, dual-layer DVD burner, 802,11g, upgraded battery, ATI x1400 256MB graphics
$2600 M1710 — 2.16Ghz Core Duo, 667Mhz RAM, 5400 120GB HD, bluetooth, dual-layer DVD burner, 802,11g, upgraded battery, NVidia 7800 256MB graphics
I fail to see your point.
Oops, I priced that XPS too low – I should have said $3500. You pay a lot for the 1900*1200 screen, the pretty colored lights, the kick-ass NVidia 7900 graphics, and the plasic cover with “XPS” printed on it.
Let’s also not forget the MBP looks the dog’s bollocks. That’s good if you don’t understand British vernacular.
The styling of the MBP is second to none and that is worth paying for.
Its a bargain in fact.
If you don’t like the styling go and buy a childish looking alienware lead-weight.
the best part about Dell is that its REALLY easy to figure out how to buy a compute ron their site…
easy compared to, say, solving Fermat’s Last Theorm or calculating the trajectory of an interplanetary spaceship.
cause i first didn’t know if i was a gamer, a small business or a large business…
then i didn’t know which of the 4 laptops with 4 different price points which were ALL called the M 1710 …
and the one that i configured (after it yelled at me for having a configuration conflict) came out to….
$3393.
which, honestly, pretty much sums up buying a PC – if you’ve got shit to do, and that shit you have to do is NOT spending all your time trying to figure out HOW to buy a Dell – then just buy a Mac – I’ve made it easy and simple and straight forward…
and cheaper.
Is there any such thing like a “decent Dell”?
Odd, isn’t it, that you hardly ever hear anyone say “Nah, not buying the BMW, I’m going to buy two Fords instead”?
jderk? What is that d doing in there?
Is that Dell Jerk?
Here is the link to the Dell laptop that can be configured to closely match the MacBook Pro 17′ at a lower price:
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=E1705S4&s=dhs
mind you, I would prefer the MacBook Pro (I bought one), but we might as well get our facts straight.
Normally I like to do these side by side comparisons myself because I want to make sure they’re accurate but I just don’t have the time to figure out the dell website. I want to pick my computer based on the specs I want, not by telling dell what I need to do and having them tell me what I need to buy. There are different lines that can configured in different ways to approximate the hardware in the new PowerBook (I’m boycotting MBP, it’s a freaking stupid name) but since I can’t figure out which one is the most fair comparison because there is no reasoning to the divisions and lines they make I can’t say for sure who wins.
This all just goes to show that the difference between the dell and the apple isn’t hardware. It isn’t even software. It’s philosophy. Dell is add, add, add. More choices, more configurations, more case colors, more operating system flavors, more USB ports, more product lines, more company divisions, more steps to the process. Apple is simplify, simplify, simplify. Two product lines, a couple of configurations each, beautiful silver or white, the best operating system (although you can add others if you want, but apple doesn’t make you decide that at the same time you pick your hardware) fewer steps in the process. The one thing from dell that I wouldn’t mind apple stealing is the more ports philosophy. I don’t need 6 USB ports, in fact I’m fine with the two I have but I often wish I had more than one firewire 400 port.
But aside from ports, Apples’ philosophy leads to a better consumer experience for me at least. Maybe someone else out there wants to be able to pick 7 different ways to get hardware with nearly identical specs. I’m fine with the choice of 6 notebook configurations if I know that all of them are high quality.
I found out why the M1710 is so much more than the E1705:
1) The M1710 can take up to 4GB RAM, where the E1705 and MBP can only take 2GB.
2) The M1710 has a lot of pretty colored lights and bright-colored plastic casing.
3) The M1710 is available with 7900 GS or 7900 GTX graphics, either of which massively outperforms the mid-range x1600 graphics of the MacBook Pro. The E1705 is available with integrated graphics (on par with the Mac mini – ugh), x1400 256MB (on par with the MacBook Pro’s underclocked 1600 256MB), or NVidia 7800 (much better than MBP).
That’s pretty much it.
It occurs to me that the M1710 with 4GB RAM running Photoshop natively in Windows would sure humiliate a MacBook Pro with 2GB running Photoshop through Rosetta. Not that anyone uses Macs for doing graphic design work or anything like that.
Well, I just need Dell spec’s… (no cam, no FW 800…)
with Apple design at low Dell price’s!
I see where he got the “a couple of decent Dells for that price” from. It’s kind of disturbing.
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=E1705S2&s=dhs
Bump up the specs to 1.83Ghz, 1GB RAM, 80GB drive, dual-layer DVD burner. It’s about $1300.
Sure it is slightly slower, has slightly less storage, and has integrated graphics just like the Mac mini – so it is not suitable for gaming. Doesn’t that qualitfy as a “decent Dell”, if any Dell does?
Two E1705 laptops configured as I described would indeed cost a bit less than one MacBook Pro 17″. They would not be on par with the MacBook Pro, but they would certainly be “a couple of decent Dells.” He never claimed that you could get a couple of Dells that are just as good, just “a couple of decent Dells.”
MDN-
Why don’t you re-calculate with Linux (the world’s most cost-effective OS)?
I’m not going to bother writing this troll writer.
However if someone wants to point out this comparison chart to Mr. Clueless, they can do so.
http://www.systemshootouts.org/shootouts/laptop/2006/0424_lt2800.html
It used to be Mac’s were significantly better than a similar equipted PC, but with the recent Intel switch and Mac OS X exploits it’s not been the case.
Right now the only real difference is the choice of operating system preference. Which one gives you a bit more free programs than the other.
It’s really sad the comparison chart now says “Mac OS X, exploits fixed more often/faster” than no exploits at all like it used to.
In fact that’s not really true, Mac OS X has exploits that have not been fixed for months now. Apple can’t fix the metadata exploit because it will require altering the operating system and Microsoft can’t fix certain exploits because it too would require altering the operating system.
So it’s really looking bad for Mac OS X lately, I just hope Steve is addressing the issue because a few holes is fine, but now it’s a flood.
Here is the most interesting comparisson yet:
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=E1705S2&s=dhs
Bring the specs up to 2.16Ghz, 2GB 667Mhz RAM, 120GB 5400 rpm HD, NVidia 7800 256MB graphics, 1900*1200 display, 802.11g/a, bluetooth, upgraded battery, dual-layer DVD burner and Soundblaster Audigy.
That’s a higher-resolution display, twice the memory, and a much faster video card than the $2799 MacBook Pro 17″ comes with.
$2547.
Now it’s becoming more clear – go with Dell and you can get something decent for half the price, something a bit better for a little bit less money, and something much better for a lot more money (4GB memory capacity, twice as good graphics, pretty colored lights, $4000). You’re still getting a big ugly plastic brick that can’t do Mac OS X, but there it is.
Oh I like to add that with the Dell option there is a choice what to upgrade the laptop with verses the MacBook Pro which there is no choice.
If you don’t want a remote control for the media center on the Dell you don’t have to buy it for a savings of $23. Of course the list goes on, Bluetooth, wireless etc etc.
This all can add up to a significant savings which can be applied to buying a iPod for instance.
Why pay for what you won’t need?
Of course Windows totally sucks ass, but there is no alternative really.
Apple is moving very slowly into some choice in upgrades now, like getting faster hard drives for the laptops and video cards for iMac’s
Andrew:
I like how that link you provided adds $495 of added-on crappy software to the Dell to make the MacBook Pro look like a better deal. Very Cute.
As someone above implied you can configure a Ford (indeed any ‘cheap’ make) to a BMW (or Merc for that matter) and probably still get it cheaper (if arguably because like Dell configurations often you don’t). But somehow it just isn’t the same and the experience is far less satisfying (at least 90% of the time/cases) and of course that lies in the areas that one simply can’t configure into the lesser product. In the BMW this is the driver experience and build quality amongst other things. In the Mac its the superior user experience, the iLife suite, the size, weight and looks, the ease of use, the care over the little things… well do I need to go on? Certainly you can argue over the importance of these for years but personally I love to have a sense of well being when using technology and you simply can’t put a price on that, although anyone who has experienced the thing will find that Dell will attempt their own version by putting the fear of God in you and price you up to and beyond the equivalent Mac before you realise it. And you know i bet when asked those buyerss will still parrot off the price on the site before they were manipulated to extend their credit.
It would be intresting to see the price of the comparable computers that people actually pay Dell as opposed to that price (often theoretically) offerred by Dell on its site. Also of course the price after a year or two’s use would be another interesting comparison.
Anyways, all that said, I wouldn’t trade my 1.83Ghz Core Duo 1GB $1750 MacBook Pro 15″ for any Dell. Heck, I’ll probably part out my Windows PC on eBay; the MacBook Pro is faster (even at running Windows XP) and quieter. Silly little 2.6Ghz Athlon64 single-sore computer. =)
Hi Nick, the Dell you provided ends up at $2671 when I added a remote control and XP “Professional”. That’s more expensive than the basic Macbook Pro 17″ .
I meant the first link you posted about the E1705. The second is indeed cheaper, like 400$.
I am happy to cram out the additional dough for the absence of incoming worms and viruses through my ugly squeeking windows.
Come on Nick you are now losing credibility here. Of course you can get a couple of less well equiped Dells for about the same price. You can also get a couple of less well equiped mac laptops for the price too. If you keep taking off what you think are inconsequential ingredients here you simply end up with a pen and paper as the comparison, and my word look how much cheaper and lighter that is. Did he make that point however no. Was he implying that you can get perfectly good ‘equivalent’ Dells, well of course yes he was, this is simply the second hand car salesman technique. The very same argument goes for buying the more expensive Dell laptops too, the extra just doesn’t make it worthwhile if you want to put subjective values on things but did he make that point? Again no. Please don’t try to suggest that this guy is being objective or judging the computers by the same standards because he isn’t, and you are progressively in your posts trying to hide that fact. Your own objectivity is, despite some worthwhile early points seen to be increasingly merely smoke and mirrors too.
Just In
American Army drops Mac support.
GameSpy is too blame of course.
I’m just shocked.
http://forum.americasarmy.com/viewtopic.php?t=213321
The only truth to free market economies:
YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!
Now that said, don;t forget to tck on Applecare.